Pilot,s duty time
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Forcing someone to go over duty time could be construed as a criminal act. There is, however, a lot of subtle and not so subtle pressure from some unscrupulous operators to get the job done in a shorter time than is possible and thus duty time is exceeded.
At the end of the day, the only one who'll be caught under the hammer is the pilot so folding and going with the flow can be self defeating. It's not an easy thing to do but sometimes it's better to turn down something that is blatantly wrong.
You've uncovered a minefield here.......
At the end of the day, the only one who'll be caught under the hammer is the pilot so folding and going with the flow can be self defeating. It's not an easy thing to do but sometimes it's better to turn down something that is blatantly wrong.
You've uncovered a minefield here.......
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Working for Emirates you get ROSTERED to exeed. I have done Jakarta -Bangkok-Dubai in one go with no relief pilot in sight.(10.5hrs stick time). The flight plan they provide has a block time that is less than the flying time, but they use the block to work out flight and duty. Guys here have raised ASR's against themselves for falling asleep on the approach.
Bottom line, if bean counters run the organization and the pilot management are a bunch of yes men you are screwed!
Bottom line, if bean counters run the organization and the pilot management are a bunch of yes men you are screwed!
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Problem is that it's not management or the roster clerk who gets nailed. If things go wahoonie shaped it's the pilot who has to defend his licence to the authorities. It's not easy but we have to cover our own @rses, and that sometimes means telling the rostering folks you can't do it. I'm not even sure it's legal to accept a roster that schedules you out of FDP.
I'm guessing that this would vary from country to country, though.
Anyone have any more gen on this?
I'm guessing that this would vary from country to country, though.Anyone have any more gen on this?
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10.5 hrs stick time..mmm lets add 1 hr each turnanround and 1.5 hr report Longhaul and 30 mins post flight. Thats 14.5 hr day.
Unless you qualify that with a unfavourable report band and whole monthly pattern it doesnt seem too excessive. In fact its a normal day in the uk outside of ba.
You have great equipment, good food, full automation to ease the workload ,backed up with stringent sops, so not really an issue as you have presented it
Unless you qualify that with a unfavourable report band and whole monthly pattern it doesnt seem too excessive. In fact its a normal day in the uk outside of ba.
You have great equipment, good food, full automation to ease the workload ,backed up with stringent sops, so not really an issue as you have presented it
Some willingly go over duty time in places where supervision is less than stringent, especially if paid per hour.
Highest monthly total I've heard of is 300 hours, yes that's three hundred hours. DC3 crew flying sunrise to sunset every day for a month. At the end of it they looked like zombies and you would not have got into a car with one of them behind the wheel, let alone go flying. They did make alot of money that month though !
Could be done in a Dak due reliability, Carribou not so reliable and would breakdown.
Clue to operator: Mozambique late 1980s/early 1990s based Beira with DC3 and DHC4. I sure some can work it out.
Highest monthly total I've heard of is 300 hours, yes that's three hundred hours. DC3 crew flying sunrise to sunset every day for a month. At the end of it they looked like zombies and you would not have got into a car with one of them behind the wheel, let alone go flying. They did make alot of money that month though !
Could be done in a Dak due reliability, Carribou not so reliable and would breakdown.
Clue to operator: Mozambique late 1980s/early 1990s based Beira with DC3 and DHC4. I sure some can work it out.
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Dicky
Do you depart at 0100 local time and then do those hours in the UK. Methinks not, the fact is they roster you to exceed and then depend on you to go into discretion. The system is supposed to protect, not exploit??
Do you depart at 0100 local time and then do those hours in the UK. Methinks not, the fact is they roster you to exceed and then depend on you to go into discretion. The system is supposed to protect, not exploit??
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At my organisation we were also rostered to exceed our flight duty periods. We had to sneak in off days to remain within the law. When we complained management just reminded us that we are "replaceable".
Luckily though with the addition of a few more pilots we were able to sort that out
so we're complying fully now.
Luckily though with the addition of a few more pilots we were able to sort that out
so we're complying fully now.
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mmm "criminal"
would be most interested to hear from those with a legal backround......
being "forced" to exceed FDP or take inadaquate fuel reserves.........a criminal offence for both pilots and persons doing the forcing?
being "forced" to exceed FDP or take inadaquate fuel reserves.........a criminal offence for both pilots and persons doing the forcing?
