Air force PC7 accident
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moving around
Age: 43
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air force PC7 accident
Heard today on the news a PC 7 crashed up north somewhere?
Pilot was killed so here we go another statistic. Now was he trained by our zimbobwe instructors or was he trained and pushed through by our government after failing his check rides?
Not knowing any details i don't want to speculate too much and maybe it was a genuine and very unfortunate accident but was just wondering what the cicumstances are this time.....
Pilot was killed so here we go another statistic. Now was he trained by our zimbobwe instructors or was he trained and pushed through by our government after failing his check rides?
Not knowing any details i don't want to speculate too much and maybe it was a genuine and very unfortunate accident but was just wondering what the cicumstances are this time.....
GunsssR4ever
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Out there somewhere ...
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Condolences to the family, colleags and friends RIP
Johannesburg - Trainee air force pilot Oupa Jeanclaude Ramaiti, 24, died when his aircraft crashed near Lichtenburg in North West on Saturday afternoon, the SA National Defence Force said on Sunday.
SANDF spokesperson captain Ronald Maseko said Ramaiti was flying solo in a Pilatus Astra when he crashed at about 12:30.
A board of inquiry had been appointed to determine the cause of the accident.
Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota and the chief of the SANDF, General Siphiwe Nyanda, and the SA Air Force extended their condolences to Ramaiti's family and friends.
SANDF spokesperson captain Ronald Maseko said Ramaiti was flying solo in a Pilatus Astra when he crashed at about 12:30.
A board of inquiry had been appointed to determine the cause of the accident.
Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota and the chief of the SANDF, General Siphiwe Nyanda, and the SA Air Force extended their condolences to Ramaiti's family and friends.
Guest
Posts: n/a
THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY EASY BOI AS THE POLITICIANS MUST TAKE THE BLAME FOR THIS ONE, BUT I SUPPOSE IT IS JUST ANOTHER COMRADE THAT GAVE HIS LIFE FOR THE STRUGGLE. MR/S POLITICIAN IT HAS BEEN PROVED IN MANY ACCIDENTS THAT YOU NEED A CERTAIN "ABILITY" TO SAFELY OPERATE AN AIRCRAFT AND THAT HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH SKIN COLOUR OR RACE. MANY PUPES WERE WASHED IN THE PAST CAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE THAT "ABILITY". FLYING AEROPLANES IS JUST NOT THE SAME AS DRIVING A BUS.
PLEASE KEEP THOSE GRIPPENS AND HAWKS AWAY FROM BUILT UP AREAS.
Dead trainee pilot failed exams
11/04/2005 07:26 - (SA)
Erika Gibson
Johannesburg - Who will accept responsibility for the death of a trainee Air Force pilot at the weekend?
This is what aviation experts asked on Sunday when it emerged that the trainee pilot who crashed his Astra training aircraft this weekend failed his exams on more than one occasion.
Oupa Jean-Claude Ramaiti, 24, from Pretoria died on Saturday afternoon outside Lichtenburg while on a navigational training flight.
It is not yet clear what happened, but Ramaiti's body was found some distance from the wreckage, leading to speculation that he either activated the ejection seat too late or that it was activated by the impact.
Having failed the first time, Ramaiti was undergoing his flying course for a second time. Earlier, he failed his first solo control flight as well as his first instrument flight test.
Ramaiti was then offered a second chance, although it is understood that his instructors thought his performance was still not satisfactory.
"The irony is that Oupa was a nice guy whom everyone got along with well. He just did not have the necessary feel for flying," a colleague said on Sunday.
"Now he is dead because someone thought he was one of those who had to help the air force's transformation statistics look good.
"One cannot play with people's lives for the sake of being politically correct.
"Everyone at the flying school new it was only a matter of time before a fatal accident was going to prove the point," said the colleague.
Ramaiti was one of four trainee pilots from the air force's Central Flying School at Langebaanweg who underwent navigation training out of Bloemfontein during the past week.
It was expected that they would all be awarded their wings as pilots in June this year. They only had to complete their formation-flight training.
Aviation experts cautioned last year already that quality and flight safety are not negotiable for the sake of representivity and transformation.
It also emerged that another repeat-failure trainee recently tried to land without lowering his plane's wheels.
The aircraft was badly damaged, but the student was not injured.
It is understood that the students will again continue their flight training when the next intake of students commences theirs.
Following the incident, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota implied that racist instructors could be the real problem.
Air Force chief Carlo Gagiano recently said four or five instructors from the Zimbabwean air force will be helping train South African pilots soon.
It is understood that they will only be undergoing a short adjustment period since they have not previously flown the Pilatus Astra aircraft.
PLEASE KEEP THOSE GRIPPENS AND HAWKS AWAY FROM BUILT UP AREAS.
Dead trainee pilot failed exams
11/04/2005 07:26 - (SA)
Erika Gibson
Johannesburg - Who will accept responsibility for the death of a trainee Air Force pilot at the weekend?
This is what aviation experts asked on Sunday when it emerged that the trainee pilot who crashed his Astra training aircraft this weekend failed his exams on more than one occasion.
Oupa Jean-Claude Ramaiti, 24, from Pretoria died on Saturday afternoon outside Lichtenburg while on a navigational training flight.
It is not yet clear what happened, but Ramaiti's body was found some distance from the wreckage, leading to speculation that he either activated the ejection seat too late or that it was activated by the impact.
Having failed the first time, Ramaiti was undergoing his flying course for a second time. Earlier, he failed his first solo control flight as well as his first instrument flight test.
Ramaiti was then offered a second chance, although it is understood that his instructors thought his performance was still not satisfactory.
"The irony is that Oupa was a nice guy whom everyone got along with well. He just did not have the necessary feel for flying," a colleague said on Sunday.
"Now he is dead because someone thought he was one of those who had to help the air force's transformation statistics look good.
"One cannot play with people's lives for the sake of being politically correct.
"Everyone at the flying school new it was only a matter of time before a fatal accident was going to prove the point," said the colleague.
Ramaiti was one of four trainee pilots from the air force's Central Flying School at Langebaanweg who underwent navigation training out of Bloemfontein during the past week.
It was expected that they would all be awarded their wings as pilots in June this year. They only had to complete their formation-flight training.
Aviation experts cautioned last year already that quality and flight safety are not negotiable for the sake of representivity and transformation.
It also emerged that another repeat-failure trainee recently tried to land without lowering his plane's wheels.
The aircraft was badly damaged, but the student was not injured.
It is understood that the students will again continue their flight training when the next intake of students commences theirs.
Following the incident, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota implied that racist instructors could be the real problem.
Air Force chief Carlo Gagiano recently said four or five instructors from the Zimbabwean air force will be helping train South African pilots soon.
It is understood that they will only be undergoing a short adjustment period since they have not previously flown the Pilatus Astra aircraft.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Moving around
Age: 43
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Usual story
Thank you,
This is a great pity as now someone who was well liked was killed because of the great transformation process, wonder how many more have to crash before the government realises its not a race issue but a safety issue? Condolences to friends and family but hopefully this serves as a wake up call... Although it already seems as if the racist instructors are to blame if i read the last post correctly...
This is a great pity as now someone who was well liked was killed because of the great transformation process, wonder how many more have to crash before the government realises its not a race issue but a safety issue? Condolences to friends and family but hopefully this serves as a wake up call... Although it already seems as if the racist instructors are to blame if i read the last post correctly...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Johannesburg
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Dear Friend
The loss of a dear friend is never easy. Whilst I don't like to be given the "under performing" speach by the previously advantaged, I do agree that standards must never be lowered. I want my wings to be recognised as having the same value as those that went before me.
May my breathern alway remember that to share the sky with the birds is a gift. We must respect each other and the force of Nature.
In light of this stark reminder of the danger of creating statistics to please politicians may we all stop and remember that no one should have to loose his life to satisfy a political aim. In fact that only statistics being created in this example is the sort of statistic that the politicians should be ashamed of.
Grommet to the End
May my breathern alway remember that to share the sky with the birds is a gift. We must respect each other and the force of Nature.
In light of this stark reminder of the danger of creating statistics to please politicians may we all stop and remember that no one should have to loose his life to satisfy a political aim. In fact that only statistics being created in this example is the sort of statistic that the politicians should be ashamed of.
Grommet to the End
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cape Town (where else?)
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is so sad.
What is really freaky was that on Friday, during a discussion with an investigative journalist for a popular subscription TV channel, I mentioned this very aspect and stated that the instructors are not racist, but only had the best interests of the SAAF and pupil at heart. I then went on to say that sure, you can relax the criteria and make the training and tests easier, 'but that person is going to crash a very expensive aircraft, kill him/herself and perhaps kill innocent people because of the political decision taken during their initial training'.
And then the very next day ...
So sad, to bad, carry on as before?
What is really freaky was that on Friday, during a discussion with an investigative journalist for a popular subscription TV channel, I mentioned this very aspect and stated that the instructors are not racist, but only had the best interests of the SAAF and pupil at heart. I then went on to say that sure, you can relax the criteria and make the training and tests easier, 'but that person is going to crash a very expensive aircraft, kill him/herself and perhaps kill innocent people because of the political decision taken during their initial training'.
And then the very next day ...
So sad, to bad, carry on as before?
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: JNB
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is an article written LAST YEAR. Makes you think, huh?
----
'Failures' in a pilot project
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...618424,00.html
10/11/2004 09:23 - (SA)
Erika Gibson
Pretoria - The department of defence is considering sending student pilots who fail their exams to Botswana to find out whether they deserved to fail or not.
Speaking on behalf of Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota and defence secretary January Masilela, the department hinted to the portfolio committee on defence that some students failed because certain instructors were racist.
Rafeek Shah, the Democratic Alliance's spokesperson for defence, said on Tuesday the defence force's strategy for human resources was a mess.
"If there are racist instructors in the air force, then the department must deal with them.
"What message do plans like this send to other countries in southern Africa on the quality of training in the defence force?" he asked.
Retrenched officers on grounds of race
His comments came after a student pilot, who had failed numerous tests, was allowed to continue his training - and went on to damage an Astra training plane in landing.
According to Shah, the defence force trapped itself when it retrenched officers purely because of their race.
According to him, the defence force recently let 77 colonels go - of whom 76 were whites.
He also condemned the defence force's move to promote certain low-ranking soldiers.
Scores of reintegrated soldiers were promoted - some from adjutant-officer to lieutenant-colonel.
Shah said this had resulted in high-ranking officers not having the experience necessary for their posts.
Helmoed Romer-Heitman of Jane's Defence Weekly said that if student pilots were sent to Botswana for evaluation, it translated into an "unfortunate breakdown in trust" between the department and its instructors.
He said if this was the case and he was an instructor, he would resign.
Edited by Iaine Harper
------
----
'Failures' in a pilot project
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...618424,00.html
10/11/2004 09:23 - (SA)
Erika Gibson
Pretoria - The department of defence is considering sending student pilots who fail their exams to Botswana to find out whether they deserved to fail or not.
Speaking on behalf of Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota and defence secretary January Masilela, the department hinted to the portfolio committee on defence that some students failed because certain instructors were racist.
Rafeek Shah, the Democratic Alliance's spokesperson for defence, said on Tuesday the defence force's strategy for human resources was a mess.
"If there are racist instructors in the air force, then the department must deal with them.
"What message do plans like this send to other countries in southern Africa on the quality of training in the defence force?" he asked.
Retrenched officers on grounds of race
His comments came after a student pilot, who had failed numerous tests, was allowed to continue his training - and went on to damage an Astra training plane in landing.
According to Shah, the defence force trapped itself when it retrenched officers purely because of their race.
According to him, the defence force recently let 77 colonels go - of whom 76 were whites.
He also condemned the defence force's move to promote certain low-ranking soldiers.
Scores of reintegrated soldiers were promoted - some from adjutant-officer to lieutenant-colonel.
Shah said this had resulted in high-ranking officers not having the experience necessary for their posts.
Helmoed Romer-Heitman of Jane's Defence Weekly said that if student pilots were sent to Botswana for evaluation, it translated into an "unfortunate breakdown in trust" between the department and its instructors.
He said if this was the case and he was an instructor, he would resign.
Edited by Iaine Harper
------
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The political monkeys who put him there should be held accountable."
Now, now SRT.Lets be real here. Accountability is something your not going to find anymore......
"It also emerged that another repeat-failure trainee recently tried to land without lowering his plane's wheels.
The aircraft was badly damaged, but the student was not injured. "
Just show how good the airplanes are....No injuries, whats the problem...........Consider it Emergency Landing training then it becomes part of the sylabus.
I think your going to see some real stuff in the future based on the recent events.....and postings.
Good Luck, but dont buy any Real Estate near the Traffic Pattern.
Now, now SRT.Lets be real here. Accountability is something your not going to find anymore......
"It also emerged that another repeat-failure trainee recently tried to land without lowering his plane's wheels.
The aircraft was badly damaged, but the student was not injured. "
Just show how good the airplanes are....No injuries, whats the problem...........Consider it Emergency Landing training then it becomes part of the sylabus.
I think your going to see some real stuff in the future based on the recent events.....and postings.
Good Luck, but dont buy any Real Estate near the Traffic Pattern.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bert
Reckon you could be right. As an ex meteorologist, I predict rains of PC-7s, PC-9s, Gripens, Hawk 100s and other bits of military aluminium.
Doubt very much the Zimbo instructors will cure the problem. They've destroyed the Zim Air force and now they seem to have been given free rein to help destroy the SAAF. Just hope innocent civilians aren't involved in any of the upcoming trauma.
Suppose we'll just have to hope the powers that be get it right sooner, rather than later...
Reckon you could be right. As an ex meteorologist, I predict rains of PC-7s, PC-9s, Gripens, Hawk 100s and other bits of military aluminium.
Doubt very much the Zimbo instructors will cure the problem. They've destroyed the Zim Air force and now they seem to have been given free rein to help destroy the SAAF. Just hope innocent civilians aren't involved in any of the upcoming trauma.
Suppose we'll just have to hope the powers that be get it right sooner, rather than later...
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sierra Leone/London/SometimesRSA
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It really is a sad state of affairs when politics start to dictate safety. Some youngsters have a natural ability, and others don't. Not all can be rocket scientist, and the instructors are there to screen the able ones from the not so able ones. Don't blame the instructors, blame the politicians. The ANC Government should realise that they cannot transform a freshly elected democratic country overnight, and neither can they correct the right from wrong overnight.
Heard a very good one on JHB Radar the other day whilst on the schedule into JHB International.
A SAAF Trainee pilot is on a solo cross country in his PC 7. He calls JHB Radar and tells the controller that he's estimating HBV at "ten to one". Controller then pipes up and says "Trainer 3537 confirm its your ETA or is it your Odds"
Man, how I love this African Aviation. Safe flying guys!
Heard a very good one on JHB Radar the other day whilst on the schedule into JHB International.
A SAAF Trainee pilot is on a solo cross country in his PC 7. He calls JHB Radar and tells the controller that he's estimating HBV at "ten to one". Controller then pipes up and says "Trainer 3537 confirm its your ETA or is it your Odds"
Man, how I love this African Aviation. Safe flying guys!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The ANC Government should realise that they cannot transform a freshly elected democratic country overnight, and neither can they correct the right from wrong overnight"
Hey Josh, big difference between "freshly elected, overnight " and the actual 10 YEARS since democracy.. This is Africa, and it will always be so..
Blue skies.
Hey Josh, big difference between "freshly elected, overnight " and the actual 10 YEARS since democracy.. This is Africa, and it will always be so..
Blue skies.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The wrong side of town.
Posts: 193
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
killing 2 birds with one stone ???
I think that the dodgy pilots pushed through the system for political expediency should have a compulsory posting to the VIP squadron , this will ensure that the politico's who are getting these guys pushed through will be on the receiving end of their own short sighted policies when a ministerial jet inevitably gets blatted into the side of table mountain at 500 knots.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Planet Tharg
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Max
Only problem I see with that one is loss of innocent life if it falls into a built up area and the replacement with all the gold plated bells and whistles being paid for by the taxpayer once again. 
Any particular reason for having gold taps?
Only problem I see with that one is loss of innocent life if it falls into a built up area and the replacement with all the gold plated bells and whistles being paid for by the taxpayer once again.
Any particular reason for having gold taps?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In my Faraday Cage
Age: 59
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Questions Asked after 'failing' Trainee Pilot is Killed in Crash
From: Richard Young [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 11 April 2005 11:18 AM
To: PPRuNe
Subject: "Questions Asked after 'failing' Trainee Pilot is Killed in Crash"
Questions Asked after 'failing' Trainee Pilot is Killed in Crash
The Natal Witness
NEWS24
Johannesburg
11 April 2005
http://www.witness.co.za/content%5C2005_04%5C32855.htm
Who will accept responsibility for the death of a trainee air force pilot at the weekend?
This is what aviation experts asked on Sunday when it emerged that the trainee pilot who crashed his Astra training aircraft this weekend has failed his exams on more than one occasion.
Oupa Jean-Claude Ramaiti (24) from Pretoria died on Saturday afternoon outside Lichtenburg while on a navigational training flight.
It is not yet clear what happened, but Ramaiti's body was found some distance from the wreckage, leading to speculation that he either activated the ejection seat too late or that it was activated by the impact.
Having failed the first time, Ramaiti was undergoing his flying course for a second time.
Earlier, he failed his first solo control flight as well as his first instrument flight test.
He was then offered a second chance, although it is understood that his instructors thought his performance was still not satisfactory.
"The irony is that Oupa was a nice guy whom everyone got along with well. He just did not have the necessary feel for flying," a colleague said on Sunday.
"Now he is dead because someone thought he was one of those who had to help the air force's transformation statistics look good. One cannot play with people's lives for the sake of being politically correct.
"Everyone at the flying school knew it was only a matter of time before a fatal accident was going to prove the point," said the colleague.
Ramaiti was one of four trainee pilots from the air force's Central Flying School at Langebaanweg who underwent navigation training out of Bloemfontein during the past week.
It was expected that they would all be awarded their wings as pilots in June this year.
They only had to complete their training in formation flying.
Aviation experts cautioned last year already that quality and flight safety are not negotiable for the sake of representivity and transformation.
It also emerged that another repeat-failure trainee recently tried to land without lowering his plane's wheels.
The aircraft was badly damaged, but the student was not injured.
It is understood that the students will again continue their flight training when the next intake of students commences theirs.
Following the incident, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota implied that racist instructors could be the real problem *1.
Air Force chief Carlo Gagiano recently said four or five instructors from the Zimbabwean air force will be helping train South African pilots soon.
It is understood that they will be undergoing a short adjustment period since they have not previously flown the Pilatus Astra aircraft.
________________________________________
*1 Of course - anyone can see that *2.
Another Riddle for 2005
*2 Is it sarcasm or perennial accusation of racism that is the last refuge of the semi-witted?
Introduction to Statistics
There is a 50% probability of getting the answer to this riddle correct.
In the Air Force there is a finite probability of landing belly-side up in one's US$50 million 4th Generation Gripen JAS39C Light Fighter Aircraft.
There is a lesser, but still finite, probability of bringing the aircraft to land whichever side up in the playground of a non-racist school at tea-break during the school term.
Sent: 11 April 2005 11:18 AM
To: PPRuNe
Subject: "Questions Asked after 'failing' Trainee Pilot is Killed in Crash"
Questions Asked after 'failing' Trainee Pilot is Killed in Crash
The Natal Witness
NEWS24
Johannesburg
11 April 2005
http://www.witness.co.za/content%5C2005_04%5C32855.htm
Who will accept responsibility for the death of a trainee air force pilot at the weekend?
This is what aviation experts asked on Sunday when it emerged that the trainee pilot who crashed his Astra training aircraft this weekend has failed his exams on more than one occasion.
Oupa Jean-Claude Ramaiti (24) from Pretoria died on Saturday afternoon outside Lichtenburg while on a navigational training flight.
It is not yet clear what happened, but Ramaiti's body was found some distance from the wreckage, leading to speculation that he either activated the ejection seat too late or that it was activated by the impact.
Having failed the first time, Ramaiti was undergoing his flying course for a second time.
Earlier, he failed his first solo control flight as well as his first instrument flight test.
He was then offered a second chance, although it is understood that his instructors thought his performance was still not satisfactory.
"The irony is that Oupa was a nice guy whom everyone got along with well. He just did not have the necessary feel for flying," a colleague said on Sunday.
"Now he is dead because someone thought he was one of those who had to help the air force's transformation statistics look good. One cannot play with people's lives for the sake of being politically correct.
"Everyone at the flying school knew it was only a matter of time before a fatal accident was going to prove the point," said the colleague.
Ramaiti was one of four trainee pilots from the air force's Central Flying School at Langebaanweg who underwent navigation training out of Bloemfontein during the past week.
It was expected that they would all be awarded their wings as pilots in June this year.
They only had to complete their training in formation flying.
Aviation experts cautioned last year already that quality and flight safety are not negotiable for the sake of representivity and transformation.
It also emerged that another repeat-failure trainee recently tried to land without lowering his plane's wheels.
The aircraft was badly damaged, but the student was not injured.
It is understood that the students will again continue their flight training when the next intake of students commences theirs.
Following the incident, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota implied that racist instructors could be the real problem *1.
Air Force chief Carlo Gagiano recently said four or five instructors from the Zimbabwean air force will be helping train South African pilots soon.
It is understood that they will be undergoing a short adjustment period since they have not previously flown the Pilatus Astra aircraft.
________________________________________
*1 Of course - anyone can see that *2.
Another Riddle for 2005
*2 Is it sarcasm or perennial accusation of racism that is the last refuge of the semi-witted?
Introduction to Statistics
There is a 50% probability of getting the answer to this riddle correct.
In the Air Force there is a finite probability of landing belly-side up in one's US$50 million 4th Generation Gripen JAS39C Light Fighter Aircraft.
There is a lesser, but still finite, probability of bringing the aircraft to land whichever side up in the playground of a non-racist school at tea-break during the school term.
