Civair : If at first you don't succeed.....!
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Civair : If at first you don't succeed.....!
From Business Report 19 Jan 04
Civair hopes second bid to go global will take off
January 19, 2005
By Audrey D' Angelo
Cape Town - Andy Cluver, chief executive of Civair, which had to call off an attempt to enter the international market with flights from Cape Town and Durban to London-Stansted in December because of cash flow problems, hopes to make a second attempt with a new partner later this year.
He and his auditor, Kobus Nel of Cape Town accounting firm Alliot Nell Anderson, have an appointment to explain what went wrong to the Civil Aviation Authority next week.
Meanwhile, the accounting firm is coming to the end of a long process of repaying fares to would-be passengers who booked from the UK.
Cluver said about R27 million had been paid for 7 000 flights that
never took off. Nel said South African passengers who sent in claims were repaid within 24 hours of verification.
But there were delays in repaying the UK passengers, not only
because the permission of the Reserve Bank had to be obtained to send the money overseas, but some UK passengers dealt with small UK banks that were unknown to local banks.
At least one would-be passenger from the UK, Maurice Power, complained to Business Report about the delay in being repaid R5 000, saying the stronger rand meant he would receive fewer pounds than he had paid last year.
Vanya Lessing, chief executive of the Association of South African Travel Agents, said there had been "a huge loss of confidence" in Civair.
She advised consumers to be cautious when dealing with new travel companies selling fares on line, as Civair had done.
Civair hopes second bid to go global will take off
January 19, 2005
By Audrey D' Angelo
Cape Town - Andy Cluver, chief executive of Civair, which had to call off an attempt to enter the international market with flights from Cape Town and Durban to London-Stansted in December because of cash flow problems, hopes to make a second attempt with a new partner later this year.
He and his auditor, Kobus Nel of Cape Town accounting firm Alliot Nell Anderson, have an appointment to explain what went wrong to the Civil Aviation Authority next week.
Meanwhile, the accounting firm is coming to the end of a long process of repaying fares to would-be passengers who booked from the UK.
Cluver said about R27 million had been paid for 7 000 flights that
never took off. Nel said South African passengers who sent in claims were repaid within 24 hours of verification.
But there were delays in repaying the UK passengers, not only
because the permission of the Reserve Bank had to be obtained to send the money overseas, but some UK passengers dealt with small UK banks that were unknown to local banks.
At least one would-be passenger from the UK, Maurice Power, complained to Business Report about the delay in being repaid R5 000, saying the stronger rand meant he would receive fewer pounds than he had paid last year.
Vanya Lessing, chief executive of the Association of South African Travel Agents, said there had been "a huge loss of confidence" in Civair.
She advised consumers to be cautious when dealing with new travel companies selling fares on line, as Civair had done.
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Maybe Mr. Cluver should try a different approach?
1. Get clearance from authorities at both ends of proposed route
2. Get operators licence
3. Get an actual aircraft
4. Hire and train crews
5. Commence operation
Throughout this process, make sure adequate funding is available.
1. Get clearance from authorities at both ends of proposed route
2. Get operators licence
3. Get an actual aircraft
4. Hire and train crews
5. Commence operation
Throughout this process, make sure adequate funding is available.
GunsssR4ever
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That sounds easy enough 
I persoanlly would have started with a Charter Airline to cover for a month or three.
I would have :
Still made money
Have pax loving me
and in the mean time train - get an aircraft
I persoanlly would have started with a Charter Airline to cover for a month or three.
I would have :
Still made money
Have pax loving me
and in the mean time train - get an aircraft
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We've all had our say about this lot on previous postings and I don't want to sound repetative, but Cluver is a joker, a man driven by his ego, and nothing else. No wonder he is commonly known as "Clueless Cluver".
His airline will NEVER take off, and it appears that he has'nt been able to grasp the damage he caused and the negative impact his flunked idea caused the travel industry in SA. Beware future travellers, beware!
His airline will NEVER take off, and it appears that he has'nt been able to grasp the damage he caused and the negative impact his flunked idea caused the travel industry in SA. Beware future travellers, beware!
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LSFF
Unfortunately, these people do exist. A fool and his money are easily parted.
Also, you can get all kinds of information from them, which could be used “for other purposes”.
Not that I am suggesting anything untoward, of course not ! Gooie genade !!
oTd
Also, you can get all kinds of information from them, which could be used “for other purposes”.
Not that I am suggesting anything untoward, of course not ! Gooie genade !!
oTd
GunsssR4ever
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From Business Report
Civair steps up to the plate today
January 26, 2005
By Audrey D' Angelo
Cape Town - Andy Cluver, the chief executive of Civair, and Kobus Nell, a partner in Alliott Andersen Nell, will today explain to the Airlines Council why the airline, after twice postponing its take-off to London, had to announce it was unable to start its international service because of cash flow problems.
Thousands of people in South Africa and the UK had their Christmas holidays ruined when charter airline Civair failed in an attempt to enter the global market in December with flights to London-Stansted.
Most had received their money back, apart from bank commissions, according to auditors Alliott Andersen Nell, which held all fare payments in a trust.
Nell confirmed that Civair had never banked the fare money or profited from interest on it. Cluver said he had been let down by "a millionaire partner" who failed to provide promised funds to lease a Boeing 747 from European Airlines, a UK-based firm.
One indignant Briton, John Walker, provided a copy of an undated letter from the UK department of transport stating that it had never received a request for an operating permit from Civair.
Cluver said the only detail Civair could not provide to the UK authorities was the registration number of the aircraft it had leased.
He produced copies of correspondence discussing whether the aircraft would be on the South African register or remain on the European register.
January 26, 2005
By Audrey D' Angelo
Cape Town - Andy Cluver, the chief executive of Civair, and Kobus Nell, a partner in Alliott Andersen Nell, will today explain to the Airlines Council why the airline, after twice postponing its take-off to London, had to announce it was unable to start its international service because of cash flow problems.
Thousands of people in South Africa and the UK had their Christmas holidays ruined when charter airline Civair failed in an attempt to enter the global market in December with flights to London-Stansted.
Most had received their money back, apart from bank commissions, according to auditors Alliott Andersen Nell, which held all fare payments in a trust.
Nell confirmed that Civair had never banked the fare money or profited from interest on it. Cluver said he had been let down by "a millionaire partner" who failed to provide promised funds to lease a Boeing 747 from European Airlines, a UK-based firm.
One indignant Briton, John Walker, provided a copy of an undated letter from the UK department of transport stating that it had never received a request for an operating permit from Civair.
Cluver said the only detail Civair could not provide to the UK authorities was the registration number of the aircraft it had leased.
He produced copies of correspondence discussing whether the aircraft would be on the South African register or remain on the European register.
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Civair failed to apply for licence to land in UK
From the Cape Times:
Civair failed to apply for licence to land in UK
'could not afford fee'
February 1, 2005
By A'eysha Kassiem
Civair, the airline that left thousands of passengers stranded over the holidays when it cancelled its inaugural flights between SA and London, was not licensed to land in Britain, the Cape Times has established.
The airline failed to apply for such a licence.
When British authorities were made aware of Civair's plans to offer low-cost flights between SA and the UK, they tried to contact the airline, but did not receive a response.
Civair confirmed it had not applied for a licence and said the reason was that it could not afford the deposit because an investor had withdrawn.
Contacted in London yesterday, UK Department of Transport spokesman David Stewart said: "Civair did not make any contact with our department at all. We had to contact (the airline) when we saw the reports that it was planning flights to the UK."
International airline procedures required airlines to apply for a permit to land, Stewart said.
"We have to be satisfied that it is a safe airline. If it is registered in a country with a safe aviation regime like SA, then the process will go quickly and it will not be difficult to get a permit. It can happen overnight."
Aviation documents, airworthiness and whether aircraft were properly maintained were among the aspects that had to be considered, Stewart said.
Civair's chief executive, Andy Cluver, denied yesterday that the airline had not contacted the UK's Department of Transport.
He said he had "written proof" that it had and termed the licence a "formality".
Asked why the airline had not applied for the licence, Cluver said: "We had an SA operating permit, but we still needed to submit our aircraft registration.
"We could not afford the deposit fee due to the investor's pulling out."
Civair has been struggling since November to get its service to the UK off the ground.
It postponed its inaugural flights to and from Britain twice before cancelling them.
This left Civair's passengers having to fork out large sums for seats with other airlines, which were almost fully booked for the festive season.
Cluver said Civair had refunded about 80% of the passengers who had booked to fly with it and was waiting for the others to come forward with their details.
He was confident, however, that the airline would eventually take off when it secured a "suitable investor".
'could not afford fee'
February 1, 2005
By A'eysha Kassiem
Civair, the airline that left thousands of passengers stranded over the holidays when it cancelled its inaugural flights between SA and London, was not licensed to land in Britain, the Cape Times has established.
The airline failed to apply for such a licence.
When British authorities were made aware of Civair's plans to offer low-cost flights between SA and the UK, they tried to contact the airline, but did not receive a response.
Civair confirmed it had not applied for a licence and said the reason was that it could not afford the deposit because an investor had withdrawn.
Contacted in London yesterday, UK Department of Transport spokesman David Stewart said: "Civair did not make any contact with our department at all. We had to contact (the airline) when we saw the reports that it was planning flights to the UK."
International airline procedures required airlines to apply for a permit to land, Stewart said.
"We have to be satisfied that it is a safe airline. If it is registered in a country with a safe aviation regime like SA, then the process will go quickly and it will not be difficult to get a permit. It can happen overnight."
Aviation documents, airworthiness and whether aircraft were properly maintained were among the aspects that had to be considered, Stewart said.
Civair's chief executive, Andy Cluver, denied yesterday that the airline had not contacted the UK's Department of Transport.
He said he had "written proof" that it had and termed the licence a "formality".
Asked why the airline had not applied for the licence, Cluver said: "We had an SA operating permit, but we still needed to submit our aircraft registration.
"We could not afford the deposit fee due to the investor's pulling out."
Civair has been struggling since November to get its service to the UK off the ground.
It postponed its inaugural flights to and from Britain twice before cancelling them.
This left Civair's passengers having to fork out large sums for seats with other airlines, which were almost fully booked for the festive season.
Cluver said Civair had refunded about 80% of the passengers who had booked to fly with it and was waiting for the others to come forward with their details.
He was confident, however, that the airline would eventually take off when it secured a "suitable investor".
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What a joker!
The article posted above clearly indicates Cluver's incompetence. Not only did he have a "hidden agenda", but he also lied to his prospective passengers when he took their money. All along he knew that his airline was'nt going to fly, yet he pretended that all was in place! Someone should sue this joker for damages big time!
I remember his statements to the media, his flambouyant appearance on TV, and his widely publicised take off date as early October. Yet during mid September he was still running around JHB with a black dude, alledgedly his BE partner, trying to raise US$350K to pay as a deposit to secure some airplanes. What does that tell you? That this clown knew all along that he had NO airline, that he WAS'NT going to fly, yet he was happy to take loot off innocent victims!
This guy appears to have no end to his bold, shameless shenanigans. Rumour has it that he recently approached a finance house to "re-finance" his pilvered/stripped MBB105 that have been parked outside his shack in the son for the last 3 years. The finance guys pitched up at CT International to view the "immaculate" MBB 105, but found only a shell with no engines, MR blades and other major components. Upon inquiry to the local help, it turned out that this great aviation personality Mr. Andy Cluver, had lied to the finance house about the condition of the 105, as he had told them that the machine was complete and in an immaculate condition! Rumours yes, but I just may kinda believe it..... if you twist my arm hard enough......
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Civair still aims high
From the Letters page of todays' Cape Times:
Civair still aims high
February 4, 2005
I write in response to your article in the Cape Times (February 1) regarding Civair Airways. Civair Airways and its associated companies have operated in the air tourism industry in Cape Town and the greater South Africa for the past 10 years.
With this in mind Civair envisages providing affordable low budget air travel to and from London. This vision remains and continues to be pursued. The numerous letters of support from tourists, hotel groups and previous ticket buyers confirm the viability of the concept.
Contrary to what is suggested in your article, Civair had obtained an Airline Operating Certificate from the South African Civil Aviation Authority and had secured five slots a week to Stansted Airport, London.
What was outstanding was the notification of the registration of the aircraft to be used. An aircraft had been secured. The sudden and unforeseen failure of the investor to provide the guarantee for the aircraft derailed the transaction. As a consequence the registration could not be given.
Your mention that David Stewart from the UK Department of Transport knew nothing of this, is incorrect. Mr Kingsley of that department has regularly corresponded with Civair and had our contact details. No queries were received.
Civair offers fares up to 50% less than existing operators, utilising internet booking and banking services, the removal of commissions, and affording the passengers the opportunity to only pay for what they want. Civair welcomes inquiries, suggestions and comments.
AAK Cluver
CEO Civair
Cape Town
February 4, 2005
I write in response to your article in the Cape Times (February 1) regarding Civair Airways. Civair Airways and its associated companies have operated in the air tourism industry in Cape Town and the greater South Africa for the past 10 years.
With this in mind Civair envisages providing affordable low budget air travel to and from London. This vision remains and continues to be pursued. The numerous letters of support from tourists, hotel groups and previous ticket buyers confirm the viability of the concept.
Contrary to what is suggested in your article, Civair had obtained an Airline Operating Certificate from the South African Civil Aviation Authority and had secured five slots a week to Stansted Airport, London.
What was outstanding was the notification of the registration of the aircraft to be used. An aircraft had been secured. The sudden and unforeseen failure of the investor to provide the guarantee for the aircraft derailed the transaction. As a consequence the registration could not be given.
Your mention that David Stewart from the UK Department of Transport knew nothing of this, is incorrect. Mr Kingsley of that department has regularly corresponded with Civair and had our contact details. No queries were received.
Civair offers fares up to 50% less than existing operators, utilising internet booking and banking services, the removal of commissions, and affording the passengers the opportunity to only pay for what they want. Civair welcomes inquiries, suggestions and comments.
AAK Cluver
CEO Civair
Cape Town
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Getting your money back from Civair
I read in an English paper a couple days ago that Civair had refunded some amounts but had also deducted up to £179 for "credit card charges and bank charges" from their "non-flying pax".
Could be quite a nice little earner there, not that I am suggesting anything underhand. What me !!!???
Probably quite untrue and in fact maybe they got some form of compensation from the nice man to make up for all their troubles and disappointments, he seems to be such a decent fellow after all.
oTd
Could be quite a nice little earner there, not that I am suggesting anything underhand. What me !!!???
Probably quite untrue and in fact maybe they got some form of compensation from the nice man to make up for all their troubles and disappointments, he seems to be such a decent fellow after all.
oTd
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Eesch! What optimism.
Half of Cluver's staff have left him, and his helicopter business is struggling to survive. His name sake (Andries, Andrews, Andy) at the Waterfront office was recently overheard telling a fellow aviation enthusiast how bad things are with them, that there's never any money for anything, and that business this last holiday season was the worst Civair has experienced since its existence.
Makes you think huh?
Are we all confused, or does Cluver know something we don't?
Its great to envisage something, but its another story putting it into effect, and reaping the benefits of whatever you envisaged.
Right now I'm envisaging winning the Euro Lotto of 25 million Euros. Geez.... just imagine what I can envisage with 25 million Euros in my pocket......
Half of Cluver's staff have left him, and his helicopter business is struggling to survive. His name sake (Andries, Andrews, Andy) at the Waterfront office was recently overheard telling a fellow aviation enthusiast how bad things are with them, that there's never any money for anything, and that business this last holiday season was the worst Civair has experienced since its existence.
Makes you think huh?
Are we all confused, or does Cluver know something we don't?
Its great to envisage something, but its another story putting it into effect, and reaping the benefits of whatever you envisaged.
Right now I'm envisaging winning the Euro Lotto of 25 million Euros. Geez.... just imagine what I can envisage with 25 million Euros in my pocket......
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We all know who and what Andy Cluver is, but the travelling public has/had no idea. I think reporters like Audrey D'Angelo and her newspaper should accept a certain amount of responsibility for casting this man in a good light without even investigating matters. All the hype in the Weekend Argus about Civair could have been clarified by a casual visit to his wooden shack at the airport. That would certainly have raised some investigative journalist's eyebrows. Maybe she's just a columnist, I don't know, but if I was Joe Public I may have also bought a ticket with Civair after reading the newspaper??
