406 down in tz
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hey
Hi ShenziHTAR , yep in ark now and mama iris is cool .Enjoying her vacation in the south at the mo.
Hows eveything bro ??
Family life not too taxing i hope .
406 pilot , mate you've got good points and the rest but it remains to be said that , like me, you weren't there so all the talk about rotation speed ...etc remains speculative . Coming to our SOP , they have not been exactly drawned by one person but are the result of a think tank between Our GM, CP (current one because as you know we had to redo everything due to the publication of the new TANR's ) and their peers at Air kenya .So I'd say they are reasonnably sound .
To come back to the 'Man' issue , I never implied he was a bad driver or anything , just that he has a tendancy to criticize heavily and meanly other pilots for everything they do while never taking a look at his own deficiencies (minor as they maybe) . It's just that a bit of humility never hurts . After all he's not chuck yeager or john glenn or Mermoz for christ sake . I hope i don't end up being as bitter with the entire human race as he is , that's all .
Anyway you take care and I hope things will happen a bit faster for you when The instructors become available on your 732 .We might see you at kili soon ..
Hows eveything bro ??
Family life not too taxing i hope .
406 pilot , mate you've got good points and the rest but it remains to be said that , like me, you weren't there so all the talk about rotation speed ...etc remains speculative . Coming to our SOP , they have not been exactly drawned by one person but are the result of a think tank between Our GM, CP (current one because as you know we had to redo everything due to the publication of the new TANR's ) and their peers at Air kenya .So I'd say they are reasonnably sound .
To come back to the 'Man' issue , I never implied he was a bad driver or anything , just that he has a tendancy to criticize heavily and meanly other pilots for everything they do while never taking a look at his own deficiencies (minor as they maybe) . It's just that a bit of humility never hurts . After all he's not chuck yeager or john glenn or Mermoz for christ sake . I hope i don't end up being as bitter with the entire human race as he is , that's all .
Anyway you take care and I hope things will happen a bit faster for you when The instructors become available on your 732 .We might see you at kili soon ..
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Joshua Express, no one has really talked about the maintenance, and nothing yet points at the maintenance neither.
406pilot, what's up dude? U're not trying to get a 406 job in Arusha aren't you??
Just kidding.
Hey, along the lines of Percy, I agree that the Man is a very good pilot (who wouldn't be at 17,000 hrs of bush flying!!!
), but I totally agree avec Monsieur Perceval that he is a major prick and despite all the credits we can give him, for having come out of ****ty situations often, or for running a tidy operation, he is a major bitter a**hole. He spends too much time criticizing other pilots and companies, being mean to locals, barking at his pilots and fighting some crazy conspiracy theory that every one in town wants him out of business. 6 pilots ran away in the same 12 months period. The man himself counted 15 in the previous year. The guy has the highest turnover of pilots in Arusha, there's a good reason for them running away and it has to do with him. You pretty much didn't like him neither and when I was in your office (great R&R and good coffe and the best websurfing in Dar!!
) how many times did I hear your boss, the 2 top guys in maintenance and you pilots saying how bad of a prick he was. There's a reason dude. Nonetheless, he is a good pilot himself.
406pilot, what's up dude? U're not trying to get a 406 job in Arusha aren't you??
Just kidding. Hey, along the lines of Percy, I agree that the Man is a very good pilot (who wouldn't be at 17,000 hrs of bush flying!!!
), but I totally agree avec Monsieur Perceval that he is a major prick and despite all the credits we can give him, for having come out of ****ty situations often, or for running a tidy operation, he is a major bitter a**hole. He spends too much time criticizing other pilots and companies, being mean to locals, barking at his pilots and fighting some crazy conspiracy theory that every one in town wants him out of business. 6 pilots ran away in the same 12 months period. The man himself counted 15 in the previous year. The guy has the highest turnover of pilots in Arusha, there's a good reason for them running away and it has to do with him. You pretty much didn't like him neither and when I was in your office (great R&R and good coffe and the best websurfing in Dar!! ) how many times did I hear your boss, the 2 top guys in maintenance and you pilots saying how bad of a prick he was. There's a reason dude. Nonetheless, he is a good pilot himself.
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-Wrapped up quite nicley by percy and shenzi there. As most people feel that way. I am lucky I am a golden boy and have no huge problems with the chap.
-Interesting that 406 would have made the go choice.
-Percy, why dont you ask the pilot what speed he rotated at? Then ask him if it is ok to post it here on prune. If he lets you do that we will know something. It will also tell us something if he does not allow you to do it!
-Interesting that 406 would have made the go choice.
-Percy, why dont you ask the pilot what speed he rotated at? Then ask him if it is ok to post it here on prune. If he lets you do that we will know something. It will also tell us something if he does not allow you to do it!
Last edited by helldog; 14th Dec 2004 at 10:18.
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Always something new here...
Just got back from six weeks at work in Lagos to find this...
I used to fly a Cessna 404, the poor cousin of this 406 I guess you could say.
I had an engine failure one day, when the big hose popped off the feed from the turbocharger on the right engine. My luck was that this happened at FL085 after a takeoff from a short strip with a full load on a hot afternoon (35 degrees C. or so). It was very impressive how quickly the airplane went from sort of climbing to sort of descending.
I had hoped to do a bit of trouble-shooting first, but then decided to feather the prop and get stabilised on the good engine instead. Of course the sick engine would run once I had leaned it way back, but I hadn't thought of that at first.
If things had worked out a bit differently, if that hose had come loose just fifteen minutes earlier, then I assume we would have plowed a rather nasty, scorched groove in the bush just off the end of the strip with all the armchair experts looking up numbers in the POH to show how I had screwed up there, since the airplane should have climbed away once one had the gear up, the failed engine feathered, the flaps up and the aircraft banked 5 degrees with the ball half a tick out. All of this so that we should go from minus 300 feet per minute to plus whatever, done in about one second with no hesitation or deviation.
Then our greatest Nigerian expatriate armchair expert ever (Ace of the Base when it came to hangar flying and dealing out performance evaluations) went and clouted a small hill with an even smaller aircraft, subtracting himself from the general population. Oops!
I put all of this together in a logical way and resolved not to judge the performance of others in such a hasty way as I had done, lest I be judged myself. That said, it sure is fun to speculate, so long as one is not the target thereof.
I used to fly a Cessna 404, the poor cousin of this 406 I guess you could say.
I had an engine failure one day, when the big hose popped off the feed from the turbocharger on the right engine. My luck was that this happened at FL085 after a takeoff from a short strip with a full load on a hot afternoon (35 degrees C. or so). It was very impressive how quickly the airplane went from sort of climbing to sort of descending.
I had hoped to do a bit of trouble-shooting first, but then decided to feather the prop and get stabilised on the good engine instead. Of course the sick engine would run once I had leaned it way back, but I hadn't thought of that at first.
If things had worked out a bit differently, if that hose had come loose just fifteen minutes earlier, then I assume we would have plowed a rather nasty, scorched groove in the bush just off the end of the strip with all the armchair experts looking up numbers in the POH to show how I had screwed up there, since the airplane should have climbed away once one had the gear up, the failed engine feathered, the flaps up and the aircraft banked 5 degrees with the ball half a tick out. All of this so that we should go from minus 300 feet per minute to plus whatever, done in about one second with no hesitation or deviation.
Then our greatest Nigerian expatriate armchair expert ever (Ace of the Base when it came to hangar flying and dealing out performance evaluations) went and clouted a small hill with an even smaller aircraft, subtracting himself from the general population. Oops!
I put all of this together in a logical way and resolved not to judge the performance of others in such a hasty way as I had done, lest I be judged myself. That said, it sure is fun to speculate, so long as one is not the target thereof.
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chuks, you've got it in one!
We, in our comfortable Prooning chairs have all the time in the world to second guess some poor soul who only had a second or two to make a life or death decision.
Hindsight always 20/20, eh?
We, in our comfortable Prooning chairs have all the time in the world to second guess some poor soul who only had a second or two to make a life or death decision.
Hindsight always 20/20, eh?
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Chucks, Solid Rust, you guys got it right. It is always easy to speculate, always easy to come with the better solution, a better way of doing things. The best reaction, the best way out, in any of these accidents, is the one that saves lives, the one that gets the most survivors.
The rest is just speculation/bitterness/jealousy/boredom/couch flying - don't we all want to survive our next crash and don't we all fear it could have been us this time.
"GO CONFIDENTLY IN THE DIRECTION OF YOUR DREAMS. LIVE THE LIFE YOU HAVE IMAGINED"
HENRY DAVID THOREAU
The rest is just speculation/bitterness/jealousy/boredom/couch flying - don't we all want to survive our next crash and don't we all fear it could have been us this time.
"GO CONFIDENTLY IN THE DIRECTION OF YOUR DREAMS. LIVE THE LIFE YOU HAVE IMAGINED"
HENRY DAVID THOREAU
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Hmm...
I had an interesting bit of recent input from a sim instructor, when he was telling us that the insurance company might be after our heads if we were shown to have done something we shouldn't have or not done something we should have when the end result was a big pile of expensive slag, even with no injuries.
There we were being debriefed about an aborted T/O with an engine fire before V1. The point being emphasised was not to, 'Just leg it,' before doing everything possible, 'by the book', to extinguish an engine fire. Fair enough, but leaving the pax sat on a burning aircraft once it has stopped while finding the book, looking up the chapter and verse and then attending to various fire warnings sure does go against one's instincts. There is an indefinable gap between looking after the safety of the pax and making a reasonable effort to save the aircraft.
It may be that starting out in the small airplane end of the business has engendered a certain disrespect in me for the vaunted system integrity of a Part 25 Transport Category aircraft.
My main point in reply to this book-lover was that if this machine were so perfect, what in the world is it doing catching on fire in the first place? After such a grave disappointment I should continue to maintain faith in all those wonderful design features? I cited the joke about the naive parachutist with a failed reserve, which really didn't go down very well....
I think we all, on the receiving end of this, were thinking that as long as the pax and the crew were safe and sound then the rest of this might be negotiable, somehow. I certainly wouldn't want my crew, including myself, to be seized up with fear of the lawyers when it came time to do something right away about some malfunction. That said, yes, one has to be reasonably careful to use good CRM and the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook) rather than going into High and Mighty mode as the automatic default option.
It can be a bit intimidating to see the details that modern data recording systems can store about just what went on in the cockpit when an engine came unzipped, for example. Even a relatively small jet engine today can cost $1.5 million, so that it can be important to get things right on the cockpit side of things.
There we were being debriefed about an aborted T/O with an engine fire before V1. The point being emphasised was not to, 'Just leg it,' before doing everything possible, 'by the book', to extinguish an engine fire. Fair enough, but leaving the pax sat on a burning aircraft once it has stopped while finding the book, looking up the chapter and verse and then attending to various fire warnings sure does go against one's instincts. There is an indefinable gap between looking after the safety of the pax and making a reasonable effort to save the aircraft.
It may be that starting out in the small airplane end of the business has engendered a certain disrespect in me for the vaunted system integrity of a Part 25 Transport Category aircraft.
My main point in reply to this book-lover was that if this machine were so perfect, what in the world is it doing catching on fire in the first place? After such a grave disappointment I should continue to maintain faith in all those wonderful design features? I cited the joke about the naive parachutist with a failed reserve, which really didn't go down very well....
I think we all, on the receiving end of this, were thinking that as long as the pax and the crew were safe and sound then the rest of this might be negotiable, somehow. I certainly wouldn't want my crew, including myself, to be seized up with fear of the lawyers when it came time to do something right away about some malfunction. That said, yes, one has to be reasonably careful to use good CRM and the QRH (Quick Reference Handbook) rather than going into High and Mighty mode as the automatic default option.
It can be a bit intimidating to see the details that modern data recording systems can store about just what went on in the cockpit when an engine came unzipped, for example. Even a relatively small jet engine today can cost $1.5 million, so that it can be important to get things right on the cockpit side of things.
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hi fellows
Firstly helldog, looking at the pictures buddy the distance from the threshold to accident site suggests that the gear was raised immediately after take-off (ala' arusha style).with the gear up and locked i would have continued,but thats just me and we all know i been speculating and couch flying a lot these days..
But i used to operate on a fixed set of rules and anything out of there would be a no-go for me..old fashionedand boring but safe?
keep it up there fellows
no more 406pilot
ps:shenzi bwana i already have the ultimate dream job,(getting paid 4 doing f... all)why would i be looking for a job elsewhere
Interesting that 406 would have made the go choice.
But i used to operate on a fixed set of rules and anything out of there would be a no-go for me..old fashionedand boring but safe?
keep it up there fellows
no more 406pilot
ps:shenzi bwana i already have the ultimate dream job,(getting paid 4 doing f... all)why would i be looking for a job elsewhere
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worries
you nailed it right solid rust twotter,i do know im rustin all day long sittin on me duff,and thats whats frustrating me more then anything, is the fact that im gonna go to the sim so rusty and wht chance am i gonna have of passing the check ride only god knows....i do keep myself busy on the pc trying to shoot some approaches fs2002 kinda keeps the scan going...fingures crossed i hope to do the sim sometime in jan it will be exactly 12month since i flew a plane...kinda interesting stuff,but got no choice this is the only airline shot i got.....
keep it up there fellows
no more 406pilot
keep it up there fellows
no more 406pilot
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406Bwana, usijali Dude, you'll make it. Try to shoot as much approach as you can on the sim, and try to get a copy of Flight Sim 2004/Century of Flight. It is a much better version for use of GPS devices and also you can request the approach you want to shoot. I have done a few HTDA recently, very cool. As long as you keep reading the books you got during the rating, the air regs, and go through the procedures on Flight Sim, it will help.
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Rusting away
Hey Guys,
406 mate, I still think you are lucky that you havent yet done the entire sim, which means when you do your jet orientation you will be up to speed for the conversion.
Where as Us guys having done the sim are still rotting/rusting away, waiting for the so called Gods to complete our Base and route, now that we have been sitting around for over 2.5 months, they want to throw us in the sim for IR!
That sounds GREAT ! bring it on guys, Maybe we can do some miracles !
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406 mate, I still think you are lucky that you havent yet done the entire sim, which means when you do your jet orientation you will be up to speed for the conversion.
Where as Us guys having done the sim are still rotting/rusting away, waiting for the so called Gods to complete our Base and route, now that we have been sitting around for over 2.5 months, they want to throw us in the sim for IR!
That sounds GREAT ! bring it on guys, Maybe we can do some miracles !
Offensive language removed 4HP
LF
Last edited by 4HolerPoler; 18th Dec 2004 at 04:32.
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ahsante sana
lone falcon carefull on the language buddy, i can understand your frustration,were in this bandwagon toghether all the way through....let this year go by and then we shall take to the skies next year,with any luck from the "gods"...
Thanks shenzi for the advice im doing all that and pprunning at the same time, hard work i tell ya ..lakini hamna shida,
hopefully with any luck i might be on 126.90 next year....well worst case scenario is back to 118.2 and those deadly girraffes again...
keep it up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
Thanks shenzi for the advice im doing all that and pprunning at the same time, hard work i tell ya ..lakini hamna shida,
hopefully with any luck i might be on 126.90 next year....well worst case scenario is back to 118.2 and those deadly girraffes again...
keep it up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
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Lone Falcon, Hi Dude, thanks for the pm, sorry I haven't replied yet - kazi mingi. I understand your points and frustration. Don't worry, it can only get better.
Hey 406pilot, sasa, do you know if anyone bought TEA, and if it has been reconstructed yet? That baby was really the best 206 I flew.
I'll be shooting some approach too this w-e.
TGIF!!!
Hey 406pilot, sasa, do you know if anyone bought TEA, and if it has been reconstructed yet? That baby was really the best 206 I flew.
I'll be shooting some approach too this w-e.
TGIF!!!
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Just curious about this thread...
What was the distance in which this 406 'landed'?? Seems like it came to rest only half way down the runway (viz a viz comments about running passengers and ATR fuelling etc) after it had already had the failure, and slid to a stop yet the gear was already up??
Does anyone know how heavy it was for takeoff?? Doesn't quite sound like the 406 performance I've seen in the past??
What was the distance in which this 406 'landed'?? Seems like it came to rest only half way down the runway (viz a viz comments about running passengers and ATR fuelling etc) after it had already had the failure, and slid to a stop yet the gear was already up??
Does anyone know how heavy it was for takeoff?? Doesn't quite sound like the 406 performance I've seen in the past??
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Rumour from the engineering/investigating side of things - both engines were producing high power, and both props were out of feather on impact.
Anyone else heard anything about this?
Anyone else heard anything about this?
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the experts have arrived
karibuni wakenya kwa forum yangu.......
well the plane had 6 pob + 1 pilot,mafuta sijui?? notes thats a very interesting rumour u got there,lakini why would he abort(sorry its now changed to reject,because of our ladies friends)..i am still curious about the serviceability of the auto feather system?
guys have a great & safe 2005
keep it up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
well the plane had 6 pob + 1 pilot,mafuta sijui?? notes thats a very interesting rumour u got there,lakini why would he abort(sorry its now changed to reject,because of our ladies friends)..i am still curious about the serviceability of the auto feather system?
guys have a great & safe 2005
keep it up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
