Nationwide vs SAA
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A good airline?
How about one that doesn't rely on the taxpayer to bail them out each time they screw up. If they can stand on their own, live or die, I have no problem with them but they can't, can they?
The day they go private as was meant to happen a while back, BA/Comair will be the new national carrier. Can't see SAA surviving in a competetive market unless they lose the govt interference and are allowed to run things as a business.
How about one that doesn't rely on the taxpayer to bail them out each time they screw up. If they can stand on their own, live or die, I have no problem with them but they can't, can they?
The day they go private as was meant to happen a while back, BA/Comair will be the new national carrier. Can't see SAA surviving in a competetive market unless they lose the govt interference and are allowed to run things as a business.
126.9, be proud mate 
"Monday, August 30, 2004
SAA limits job creation and tourism industry growth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment
The following editorial comment appears in Travel News Weekly being published this week.
A FEW months ago we posed the question in TNW: Can South Africa afford SAA?
Results for the year ending March 2004 released last week show that clearly, we can not. Not in its current form.
Instead of funding its losses over the last two years the government could have built 300 000 houses costing R50 000 each.
Put another way; the government could have paid every SAA employee one million Rand to stay at home and it would still have enough money left over to build them each a R250 000 house!
SAA betted against the Rand. Once described by the airline as a “technical loss”, the humiliation for the government became too great by June this year when a final R5,9 billion was paid to close the position SAA took against the Rand. That will appear in next year’s results.
The growth in loss from R6,2 billion a year ago to R8,7 billion puts SAA into the world class league of failing airlines. Taking its small size into account, it must be the winner by several lengths.
The government has finally reacted and both SAA and holding company Transnet have new chairmen and ceo’s.
Yet the government remains blinded by lack of vision and continues to persist with the quaintly colonial system of trying to run all the country’s ports, pipelines, rail freight, passenger rail and until now, its national airline, out of one head office.
The Soviet Union was the last country to come close to such centralised control of the transport infrastructure. No other modern economy is trying to do the same.
Having played such a key role in dragging the Transnet group down, SAA will be hived off shortly, but it will remain a state enterprise, the minister for public enterprises emphasises.
The state fiddles but the real cost to the country is much more serious. Even if SAA made a few hundred million profit, the real cost is that it has put the ANC in a position that it cannot fulfill its mandate to create jobs in tourism in any number. Instead of bending over backwards to facilitate the widespread entry of leisure-orientated airlines it has to protect its investment in SAA.
LTU is the only leisure airline that operates to South Africa on a regular basis. Eight five percent of its passengers are foreigners bringing money into the country. If we are going to create jobs in real numbers then the government needs to lead the charge to make sure South Africa is attractive for many more flights of this nature.
Someone in government with vision needs to step forward.
SAA does a lot of things right (just try their new flat bed seats, for one example). It should also be noted that the position SAA took against the Rand was in accordance with Transnet policy. Travel agents and the tourism industry want, and depend on, a healthy SAA.
It is inevitable that as other airlines go beyond alliances and seek bigger cost savings through mergers, SAA will have to in any case become part of one of the super airlines that will be formed.
It happened with our national shipping line, Safmarine. Started by the Industrial Development Corporation not too long after SAA, it was a strategic national treasure. Shipping lines started with alliances but found true cost savings only came with mergers. The concept of having a national carrier became an expensive luxury. Today both Safmarine’s employees and South African customers are better off with it being wholly-owned by the world’s largest shipping group based in Denmark.
Cost pressures will force governments to follow the same route with airlines and let them fly free. Hopefully, SAA will end up fully integrated into a properly merged multi-national mega airline.
The government should take the initiative to make sure it is part of such an entity. Meantime, why stifle job creation by trying to protect the concept of a national carrier which is soon to become extinct? Open the skies with enthusiasm and lets put people to work.
(Dave Marsh)"
"Monday, August 30, 2004
SAA limits job creation and tourism industry growth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comment
The following editorial comment appears in Travel News Weekly being published this week.
A FEW months ago we posed the question in TNW: Can South Africa afford SAA?
Results for the year ending March 2004 released last week show that clearly, we can not. Not in its current form.
Instead of funding its losses over the last two years the government could have built 300 000 houses costing R50 000 each.
Put another way; the government could have paid every SAA employee one million Rand to stay at home and it would still have enough money left over to build them each a R250 000 house!
SAA betted against the Rand. Once described by the airline as a “technical loss”, the humiliation for the government became too great by June this year when a final R5,9 billion was paid to close the position SAA took against the Rand. That will appear in next year’s results.
The growth in loss from R6,2 billion a year ago to R8,7 billion puts SAA into the world class league of failing airlines. Taking its small size into account, it must be the winner by several lengths.
The government has finally reacted and both SAA and holding company Transnet have new chairmen and ceo’s.
Yet the government remains blinded by lack of vision and continues to persist with the quaintly colonial system of trying to run all the country’s ports, pipelines, rail freight, passenger rail and until now, its national airline, out of one head office.
The Soviet Union was the last country to come close to such centralised control of the transport infrastructure. No other modern economy is trying to do the same.
Having played such a key role in dragging the Transnet group down, SAA will be hived off shortly, but it will remain a state enterprise, the minister for public enterprises emphasises.
The state fiddles but the real cost to the country is much more serious. Even if SAA made a few hundred million profit, the real cost is that it has put the ANC in a position that it cannot fulfill its mandate to create jobs in tourism in any number. Instead of bending over backwards to facilitate the widespread entry of leisure-orientated airlines it has to protect its investment in SAA.
LTU is the only leisure airline that operates to South Africa on a regular basis. Eight five percent of its passengers are foreigners bringing money into the country. If we are going to create jobs in real numbers then the government needs to lead the charge to make sure South Africa is attractive for many more flights of this nature.
Someone in government with vision needs to step forward.
SAA does a lot of things right (just try their new flat bed seats, for one example). It should also be noted that the position SAA took against the Rand was in accordance with Transnet policy. Travel agents and the tourism industry want, and depend on, a healthy SAA.
It is inevitable that as other airlines go beyond alliances and seek bigger cost savings through mergers, SAA will have to in any case become part of one of the super airlines that will be formed.
It happened with our national shipping line, Safmarine. Started by the Industrial Development Corporation not too long after SAA, it was a strategic national treasure. Shipping lines started with alliances but found true cost savings only came with mergers. The concept of having a national carrier became an expensive luxury. Today both Safmarine’s employees and South African customers are better off with it being wholly-owned by the world’s largest shipping group based in Denmark.
Cost pressures will force governments to follow the same route with airlines and let them fly free. Hopefully, SAA will end up fully integrated into a properly merged multi-national mega airline.
The government should take the initiative to make sure it is part of such an entity. Meantime, why stifle job creation by trying to protect the concept of a national carrier which is soon to become extinct? Open the skies with enthusiasm and lets put people to work.
(Dave Marsh)"
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What are all of you chopper-jocks getting your t|tties in a tangle for? Clearly none of you have applied to SAA and have therefore never not made it into Airways as I said. If you want to take offence at a statement that is aimed at selection failures, be my guest.
---
The article above makes for interesting reading and points it's finger at the culprit openly. Anyone with two-cents worth of brain power picked up on that (I hope)...? Statements such as the following:
the government could have; the humiliation for the government became too great; The government has finally reacted; it will remain a state enterprise; The state fiddles; it cannot fulfill its mandate to create jobs; Someone in government with vision needs to step forward; was in accordance with Transnet and finally, The government should take the initiative to make sure it is part of such an entity. Meantime, why stifle job creation by trying to protect the concept of a national carrier which is soon to become extinct? Open the skies with enthusiasm and lets put people to work,
are a clear indicator as to where the airline problem lies. In the meantime, SAA as a flying institution providing paying passengers with a world-class service, as well as employees with unlimited career opportunities, remains the pride of those of us that have had the privelage of having worked there!
---
The article above makes for interesting reading and points it's finger at the culprit openly. Anyone with two-cents worth of brain power picked up on that (I hope)...? Statements such as the following:
the government could have; the humiliation for the government became too great; The government has finally reacted; it will remain a state enterprise; The state fiddles; it cannot fulfill its mandate to create jobs; Someone in government with vision needs to step forward; was in accordance with Transnet and finally, The government should take the initiative to make sure it is part of such an entity. Meantime, why stifle job creation by trying to protect the concept of a national carrier which is soon to become extinct? Open the skies with enthusiasm and lets put people to work,
are a clear indicator as to where the airline problem lies. In the meantime, SAA as a flying institution providing paying passengers with a world-class service, as well as employees with unlimited career opportunities, remains the pride of those of us that have had the privelage of having worked there!
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Lots of interesting statistics which seem to suggest that SAA could be run far more efficiently than it is. (Yes I know the quote, "lies, damn lies and statistics" but even so....and I STILL can't be bothered to check Google to see who said it)
Anyway, my last word on this thread: SAA is clearly being mismanaged, costing the SA taxpayer (wonder if that includes 126.9?) dearly, and the unethical practices it is alleged to have perpetrated look set to cost us even more in fines. Effective and ethical management would provide secure long term employment for many, in and out of aviation. Now that would be something to be proud of.
Anyway, my last word on this thread: SAA is clearly being mismanaged, costing the SA taxpayer (wonder if that includes 126.9?) dearly, and the unethical practices it is alleged to have perpetrated look set to cost us even more in fines. Effective and ethical management would provide secure long term employment for many, in and out of aviation. Now that would be something to be proud of.
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For those of you that feel it important to shoot SAA down in it's entireity, try reading the Ryanair/SABENA/Swissair/etc. postings. For me as someone who was employed there and had the privelage of learning my trade there, and the benefit of having worked next to some of the nicest South Africans alive, I'm not about to trash or abandon my ex-colleagues in the name of a p!55!ng contest!
I therefore quote:
---
Bah humbug!
Why don't we all run around like headless chickens slagging our National Carriers off? Nothing but a flock of sheep we are; conform to whatever the hell the rest of the idiots around us are doing. Even better; let's all take action against our descent airlines to force them out of business so that two-bit, second-rate, cheap-skate airlines! like Nationwide can carry our flag abroad? Not only that; then we all go and fly for Vernon and Co. on his semi-serviceable heaps of sh
t that nobody else wants, for peanuts! Great farging idea!!! 
I therefore quote:
---
Bah humbug!
Why don't we all run around like headless chickens slagging our National Carriers off? Nothing but a flock of sheep we are; conform to whatever the hell the rest of the idiots around us are doing. Even better; let's all take action against our descent airlines to force them out of business so that two-bit, second-rate, cheap-skate airlines! like Nationwide can carry our flag abroad? Not only that; then we all go and fly for Vernon and Co. on his semi-serviceable heaps of sh
t that nobody else wants, for peanuts! Great farging idea!!!
126.9
Then have the grace to accept that some other people feel the same about there colleagues and don't start a "p!55!ng contest".
SAA doesn't hold the monopoly on "good" people!?
And stop being so sour because you couldn't get a job at Nationwide............
Then have the grace to accept that some other people feel the same about there colleagues and don't start a "p!55!ng contest".
SAA doesn't hold the monopoly on "good" people!?
And stop being so sour because you couldn't get a job at Nationwide............
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Well
At least CE is making money and expanding giving more and more pilot's opportunities to enter the market. People might say that CE is second rate, but they don't need any help from any goverment or tax-paying citizens to keep going!
Take a bow to the man who has taken on the monster SAA! Give Vernon R6 b and see what he will be able to do!
Take a bow to the man who has taken on the monster SAA! Give Vernon R6 b and see what he will be able to do!
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4holerpoler
So 126.9 has free footing to say what he likes and critisises everybody and every topic, but as soon as someone has something to say mr moderator deletes his post ??
126.9 aka 4holerpoler ?? Wolf in sheeps clothing ??
126.9 aka 4holerpoler ?? Wolf in sheeps clothing ??
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4HP and 126.9 the same? Certainly not. I know them both - and by the way I flew a lot with 126.9 and he is not a demon. Bark worse than his bite 
You owe me a beer for that WS. I am waiting in HK for you as I write this.
You owe me a beer for that WS. I am waiting in HK for you as I write this.
Togolosie 4HP was probably hoping this thread would slowly fade away...........
Pontius' Pilot Maybe you could raise a glass to the magnificient achievements of Nationwide, against one sided odds I'm sure that 126.9 would pay for that round 
Pontius' Pilot Maybe you could raise a glass to the magnificient achievements of Nationwide, against one sided odds
I'm sure that 126.9 would pay for that round
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Me, hoping it would fade away? Nope, I just try to keep the peace.
The idea of me being (no offence old chap) in the same skin as 126.9 is particularly galling but then, as in life, nothing is as it seems.
I try & keep my moderation as fair as possible and avoid interfering as much as possible - I'm sorry if it seems I have a tilt towards a particular side. Can we get back to the subject now?
4HP
The idea of me being (no offence old chap) in the same skin as 126.9 is particularly galling but then, as in life, nothing is as it seems.
I try & keep my moderation as fair as possible and avoid interfering as much as possible - I'm sorry if it seems I have a tilt towards a particular side. Can we get back to the subject now?
4HP
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Happy
It is great to be able to talk about problems we have in our various post at various airlines, but we have to remember to stick together, for we are all the same and we all want the same thing-success! Great for you guys who fly for an airline that pays you BIG BUCK. Just remember there might come a time when the small fish becomes the big fish and the old one dies!
