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-   -   Antonov 2 crash in Sweden with full Video (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/653598-antonov-2-crash-sweden-full-video.html)

JanetFlight 10th Jul 2023 02:03

Antonov 2 crash in Sweden with full Video
 
According with swedish local media only with minor injuries for both pilot and pax.

Sweden reg SE-KCE, private ops.

An hell of a clip indeed...



https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20230708-0

andrasz 10th Jul 2023 06:52

Honestly, what were they thinking...
It is one thing that the An-200 needs about 200m to get airborne, and another thing to clear 50ft trees at the end of that 200m.

VictorGolf 10th Jul 2023 12:20

Is it my hearing but does the power reduce at 0.12?

ea200 10th Jul 2023 12:49

It apears to but I think that's just doppler effect.

treadigraph 10th Jul 2023 12:56


Originally Posted by VictorGolf (Post 11464951)
Is it my hearing but does the power reduce at 0.12?

Sounds like a fairly typical recording to me, no noticeable power drop that I can detect.

With only five on board I would have thought it should have been off the ground in yards, that looked quite protracted.

OUAQUKGF Ops 10th Jul 2023 14:44

Grass looks a bit long........

Miles Magister 10th Jul 2023 15:16

Comments are missing some basic flying skills stuff here.
Lifted the tail, propeller theory dictates precession induced yaw, propeller theory dictates asymmetrical downward force and therefore drag on the main undercarriage more yaw and at this stage may be below Vmcg and Vmca so flying controls are not effective and putting any control movements just increases drag exacerbating the problem. Getting airborne too slow with big control inputs and flying sideways will never work as the a/c is below Vmca with extra drag from flying sideways and large control deflections it just gets worse with every attempt to correct. Basic error may have been that he drifted left, could not control it so decided to get airborne and fly to the right which was never going to work because of what I have written above.

atakacs 10th Jul 2023 16:07

No expertise here but is this the full extent of flaps on the AN-2 ?

EXDAC 10th Jul 2023 16:30


Originally Posted by andrasz (Post 11464793)
Honestly, what were they thinking...
It is one thing that the An-200 needs about 200m to get airborne, and another thing to clear 50ft trees at the end of that 200m.

Were the tall trees at the end of the airstrip or at the side of the airstrip My impression was that the aircraft drifted left into trees at the side. Anyone here know that strip?

denka 10th Jul 2023 16:33

This seems to be the place in the video:
google.com/maps/@58.0500258,12.818985,3a,52y,319.34h,83.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH1VZOkLx2Y6JQlU-xjx-Vw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=sv-SE&entry=ttu

Ohrly 10th Jul 2023 17:09


Originally Posted by denka (Post 11465083)
This seems to be the place in the video:
google.com/maps/@58.0500258,12.818985,3a,52y,319.34h,83.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH1VZOkLx2Y6JQlU-xjx-Vw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=sv-SE&entry=ttu

It certainly seems to be. So why were they trying to take off from a random field which is at best 400m long, and not the nice smooth tarmac of the airport 1km away?

EXDAC 10th Jul 2023 17:12


Originally Posted by denka (Post 11465083)
This seems to be the place in the video:
google.com/maps/@58.0500258,12.818985,3a,52y,319.34h,83.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH1VZOkLx2Y6JQlU-xjx-Vw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=sv-SE&entry=ttu

Thanks. I extracted the lat long and looked at the area in GE with an image time that may be similar vegetation:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3d04b36d61.jpg




Ohrly 10th Jul 2023 17:20

The video looks to be filmed from the gravel parking area near "181" in the above image. On Google Street View it looks like the field ramps up before descending after the rectangular road sign.

denka 10th Jul 2023 18:19

Involved Pilot/Plane owner seems to own the very small so called "Kattleberg Airport".

EXDAC 10th Jul 2023 20:55


Originally Posted by denka (Post 11465135)
Involved Pilot/Plane owner seems to own the very small so called "Kattleberg Airport".

Ok, but, that's not where the accident is reported to have happened. AG4850 is about 41 km WSW of the assumed accident site. The Antonov may be parked on the ramp in the GE 10/2021 image.

MechEngr 11th Jul 2023 18:28

Looks a lot like adverse yaw - tried to bank hard to the right, but the additional drag on the left wing steered left, followed probably by more desperate aileron input and the ever appealing "Pull back to go up" attempt. The rudder never compensated for the yaw.

roundsounds 11th Jul 2023 21:03


Originally Posted by Miles Magister (Post 11465033)
Comments are missing some basic flying skills stuff here.
Lifted the tail, propeller theory dictates precession induced yaw, propeller theory dictates asymmetrical downward force and therefore drag on the main undercarriage more yaw and at this stage may be below Vmcg and Vmca so flying controls are not effective and putting any control movements just increases drag exacerbating the problem. Getting airborne too slow with big control inputs and flying sideways will never work as the a/c is below Vmca with extra drag from flying sideways and large control deflections it just gets worse with every attempt to correct. Basic error may have been that he drifted left, could not control it so decided to get airborne and fly to the right which was never going to work because of what I have written above.

very impressive explanation, however Vmca and Vmcg are only applicable to multi-engine airplanes.

EXDAC 12th Jul 2023 00:21


Originally Posted by roundsounds (Post 11465805)
very impressive explanation, however Vmca and Vmcg are only applicable to multi-engine airplanes.

I was going to make the same comment and to include that the engines had to be mounted off center line. I stopped myself because some single engine aircraft are not controllable at full power on the ground below a certain speed due to limited rudder authority. I didn't know what V speed (if any) defined that. Anyone know?

megan 12th Jul 2023 01:48


some single engine aircraft are not controllable at full power on the ground below a certain speed due to limited rudder authority
The higher powered Spitfires were one such (Mk. XIV and XIX), unable to use full power for take off as the yaw had the ability to roll the tyres off the rims, even if you didn't go that far it caused severe tyre wear due to scrub, max recommended take off boost was 58% of that available.

Miles Magister 12th Jul 2023 07:17


Originally Posted by EXDAC (Post 11465861)
I was going to make the same comment and to include that the engines had to be mounted off center line. I stopped myself because some single engine aircraft are not controllable at full power on the ground below a certain speed due to limited rudder authority. I didn't know what V speed (if any) defined that. Anyone know?

I used th multi engine terms to illustrate what you have said. The basic information indicates that flight was attempted before there was sufficient airspeed for effective use of controls. The terms refer to multi engine aircraft but hew principles apply to al aircraft.


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