Crash reported
BBC is reporting 4 Dead in a Six seater a/c that crashed inbound to Dunkeswell
No Further details Apparently near the village of Churchinford |
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Light aircraft down in Somerset
BBC is reporting a six seater light aircraft has crashed in Somerset, near to Churchinford.
Four people dead as plane crashes in Somerset - BBC News Condolences to all affected. No word on the aircraft type or reason for the accident. Apologies, there is already a thread in Biz jets, I'm not sure if this one is needed - feel free to delete if not. http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...ml#post9180841 |
AAIB deployed.
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The weather in the area has been heavy rain, strong winds and low cloud all day. Dunkeswell is over 800ft above sea level......well into the clouds on a day like today
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i live not too far from Dunkers
the wx today at midday (well most of the day) has been appalling sorry to hear of this sad event but beggars belief why they were flying around here |
Aircraft looks to have been Fairoaks based Malibu Mirage, N186CB. Very sad indeed.
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What was he thinking? There's no way he would have gotten in yesterday the weather was hideous. Trying to get below and go visual maybe? Engine failure? Either way just shouldn't have been there.
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Somerset plane crash dead 'from the same family' - BBC News
The four people killed in a plane crash in Somerset are believed to be from the same family, police have said. They were killed on Saturday when the light aircraft they were travelling in crashed into a field near the village of Churchinford. The family members, from Surrey, were a 56-year-old man, 55-year-old woman, 23-year-old woman and a 20-year-old man. Supt Richard Corrigan said "our thoughts are with [the affected family] at this extremely difficult time". The aircraft was heading from the Surrey area towards Dunkeswell Aerodrome in east Devon; five miles (8km) from the crash site. Formal identification has not yet taken place and a joint investigation with the Air Accidents Investigation Branch is under way. Supt Corrigan added: "The focus of the activity will be to investigative inquiries and then recover the aircraft. "Road closures remain in place around the crash site." |
We seem to see more and more of these US registered aircraft permanently based and flying in the UK. What's the US/FAA involvement in investigating such incidents or is that all left to the UK and the AAIB?
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I live in Taunton 5 miles from the crash and the weather here yesterday was awful. What was he thinking about?
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"We seem to see more and more of these US registered aircraft permanently based and flying in the UK. What's the US/FAA involvement in investigating such incidents or is that all left to the UK and the AAIB?"
I think if it's GA the Feds leave it up to the country where the accident took place to investigate, but they do note it on there monthly NTSB reports. |
They note all US manufacturer accidents, regardless of reg, but refer to country where accident occurred for the report.
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I think if it's GA the Feds leave it up to the country where the accident took place to investigate |
ICAO Annex 13 gives State of Occurrence primacy in investigation
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Thanks all; makes sense. As an area I'm not familar with I've got myself intrigued now on operating/licencing/IR for "N" reg GA a/c permanently in the UK, but not really on this thread I guess:(
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Thread
This thread should be moved to Rumours and News. It needs a more general readership.
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Light aircraft crashes don't live in R+N - a worldwide pro flying forum
Rob |
Quite right, there are no professional pilots in light aviation, and there's no international component to an N reg aircraft crashing in England. And of course, there's nobody but professional pilots on R&N.
Less sarcastically, incidents like this are exactly what A&CC is here for and the thread is in the right place - albeit that there's nothing to stop someone posting a one line redirect elsewhere if it seems useful. G |
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Genghis
Agreed JF |
wreckage - stall? low speed
larger photos here show wreckage profile Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, WWSL Inc Trustee/Whitespace Work Software Ltd, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
i was thinking since i saw these photos on Sunday this looks like a low speed high G crash-land since when i first saw the bigger photos on the link above. perhaps the pilot in vain maybe was looking for a field to put down in and wanted to get the speed down as low as possible for a crash land but it all went wrong? he was only less than 5m from his destination all i know that living only some miles away is that the weather on Saturday was not much different to that what is happening today (same time too) its howling and lashing with very low cloud <500m and vis below about 2000m - i live on high ground a complete tragedy - would his departure station Fairoaks not have given him as what seems a very novice pilot with a new plane some hint that its not a good idea to go or do they not have that remit to say anything??? |
I think it is a problem when new pilots buy their own high performance aircraft, they are self regulating. There is nobody to put a friendly arm around the shoulder and say what was needed on this occasion, 'not today'.
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There's a disused airfield at Smeatharpe and another at Churchstanton, both very close to where the accident occurred.
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besides his nearby destination and the 2 disused airfield all very clear from the air in normal vis there is an in-use grass airstrip just SE of the village where he crashed located at
50.901430, -3.102576 edit the crash was near buttles farm only thousand yards from the very similar looking airfield of smeatharpe this is all near the Blackdown Hills https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...5da1a9c28aa190 |
Watchford isn't that large - 400m +
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is this watchford as the grass airstrip i mentioned above robin?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.90.../data=!3m1!1e3 |
That's the one
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Low level windshear can suddenly subtract far too many knots and stall you out.
A lot depends on the local terrain profile. |
Some not deeply useful conjecture here.
I know that neck of the woods, I've been into Dunkeswell quite a few times in various flying machines. - There are quite a few airfields with both hard and grass runways nearby. One, a disused airfield at Upottery is very easy to mistake for Dunkeswell. But, do we really think that with a high end single like this the pilot didn't have a moving map GPS in his field of view? - There's a lot of nearby high ground, but Dunkeswell itself is within 120ft of the highest anything within about 5 miles, so anybody planning to join at 500ft or above of the Dunkeswell runway should have been above all the nearby high ground. - Yes pilots with their own high performance aircraft sometimes get a bit carried away. There's no evidence anywhere that I can see, yet, of the pilots general judgement about his flying, or how good he was with his aeroplane. - Windshear is primarily a large aeroplane problem, it's not generally significant in anything this light. - It is a known local practice at Dunkeswell to do a cloudbreak on the ILS at Exeter then proceed to Dunkeswell at low level. I have no idea if this is relevant or not. I'll make my own conjecture. This will be a very tough accident for AAIB to draw useful conclusions from. They may be able to download a GPS and possibly some avionics, but without eyewitnesses, a mayday call, any survivors to interview - I think that the report will probably become not much more than a bland statement of facts from which we'll only really be able to guess what happened. Which is a shame, because I'm sure that if there were enough known, there would be lessons from this accident that could aid all of us. We may be able to draw some useful conjectures once we do have AAIB's reports - but only "may" in my opinion. G |
Genghis, I have no idea how good a pilot he was or whether he continued his training or completed an IMC rating or a US I/R. However a period within a flying club after obtaining a PPL gaining additional ratings/experience is a check on pilots exceeding their capabilities.
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Windshear is primarily a large aeroplane problem, it's not generally significant in anything this light. |
Originally Posted by runway30
(Post 9183575)
Genghis, I have no idea how good a pilot he was or whether he continued his training or completed an IMC rating or a US I/R. However a period within a flying club after obtaining a PPL gaining additional ratings/experience is a check on pilots exceeding their capabilities.
G |
Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying
(Post 9183710)
My recorder showed a 35 kt low level windshear that almost finished me off at a weight of 775#
G |
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mods - 2 threads going re Somerset crash
dear Mods
there is another thread on bizjets which is equally as informative as this one perhaps merge the 2? http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...ml#post9183758 regds |
I believe instructor find self made people who are more used to giving orders than taking them can be the most difficult to train and can have an inflated sense of their skill level. This could be the cause of this sad crash.
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Originally Posted by horizon flyer
(Post 9184976)
I believe instructor find self made people who are more used to giving orders than taking them can be the most difficult to train and can have an inflated sense of their skill level. This could be the cause of this sad crash.
And it's also something for which there's absolutely no evidence in this crash, at this time. G |
Windshear is primarily a large aeroplane problem, it's not generally significant in anything this light. Which is a shame, because I'm sure that if there were enough known, there would be lessons from this accident that could aid all of us. We may be able to draw some useful conjectures once we do have AAIB's reports - but only "may" in my opinion. |
Could he not have had QNH set when he thought he had set QFE? He may have thought he was 800' AGL (and in cloud). When he saw the ground he may have pulled up hard and stalled into the ground.
The ground is about 800' AMSL there. Such a tragedy for so many. I hope the AAIB report will report quickly. |
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