6 seater a/c crash Somerset
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6 seater a/c crash Somerset
News of a light aircraft crash with four deceased en route Dunkeswell
Four people dead as plane crashes in Somerset - BBC News
Four people dead as plane crashes in Somerset - BBC News
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I would be surprised if Dunkeswell was flyable at all today. I live just a few miles away and been in cloud all day, plus strong winds and certainly drizzle with occasional heavy rain.
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Photos and report at :
Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
Wreckage suggests a stall from a low altitude.
Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
Wreckage suggests a stall from a low altitude.
stall ? - wreckage profile
i was thinking the same ever since when i first saw the bigger photos on the link
Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, WWSL Inc Trustee/Whitespace Work Software Ltd, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
perhaps the pilot in vain maybe was looking for a field to put down in and wanted to get the speed down as low as possible for a crash land?
all i know that living only some miles away is that the weather on Saturday was not much different to that what is happening today (same time too)
its howling and lashing with very low cloud <500m and vis below about 2000m - i live on high ground
a complete tragedy - would his departure station Fairoaks not have given him as what seems a very novice pilot with a new plane some hint that its not a good idea to go or do they not have that remit to say anything???
Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, WWSL Inc Trustee/Whitespace Work Software Ltd, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
perhaps the pilot in vain maybe was looking for a field to put down in and wanted to get the speed down as low as possible for a crash land?
all i know that living only some miles away is that the weather on Saturday was not much different to that what is happening today (same time too)
its howling and lashing with very low cloud <500m and vis below about 2000m - i live on high ground
a complete tragedy - would his departure station Fairoaks not have given him as what seems a very novice pilot with a new plane some hint that its not a good idea to go or do they not have that remit to say anything???
Last edited by rog747; 17th Nov 2015 at 10:57.
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i was thinking the same ever since when i first saw the bigger photos on the link
Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, WWSL Inc Trustee/Whitespace Work Software Ltd, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
perhaps the pilot in vain maybe was looking for a field to put down in and wanted to get the speed down as low as possible for a crash land?
all i know that living only some miles away is that the weather on Saturday was not much different to that what is happening today (same time too)
its howling and lashing with very low cloud <500m and vis below about 2000m - i live on high ground
a complete tragedy - would his departure station Fairoaks not have given him as what seems a very novice pilot with a new plane some hint that its not a good idea to go or do they not have that remit to say anything???
Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, WWSL Inc Trustee/Whitespace Work Software Ltd, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England
perhaps the pilot in vain maybe was looking for a field to put down in and wanted to get the speed down as low as possible for a crash land?
all i know that living only some miles away is that the weather on Saturday was not much different to that what is happening today (same time too)
its howling and lashing with very low cloud <500m and vis below about 2000m - i live on high ground
a complete tragedy - would his departure station Fairoaks not have given him as what seems a very novice pilot with a new plane some hint that its not a good idea to go or do they not have that remit to say anything???
Tributes to Birmingham family killed in Somerset plane crash - Birmingham Mail
The above report describes the pilot as an amateur. The family of four were heading for their grand daughters birthday party. It does make one question as to why by air on a day when weather conditions were less than ideal.
Would anyone hinted about going flying on that day, who knows. Perhaps all that can be said is that the decision is down to the private owner pilot. But what an awful price to pay if it proved to be wrong. Sadly am sure some of us looking back at the club scenes can recall many who tragically proved wrong.
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Very sad and seeing the pictures of that lovely family very tragic.
Looking back I can understand why some pilots fly in such bad weather when even the birds would rather be on the ground. Many of us have done that in the past.
It really reinforces the idea of flying within your own limits and the aircraft limits and sadly many overestimate their own limits or the aircraft limits some of us get away with it. But especially carrying such a precious cargo brings a special responsibility.
My feelings and that is all they are is that the winds had more to play in what appears to be a stall and crash.
I have flown in conditions where the ASI is leaping up and down 25 to 30 kts with severe windshear.
Not a time to be flying low level near the stall or for that matter near the normal VREF. One massive downdraught ?
But as I said just an instinct it could have been disregard for airspeed while peering into the gloom or overbanking again at too slow a speed.
Very very sad
Pace
Looking back I can understand why some pilots fly in such bad weather when even the birds would rather be on the ground. Many of us have done that in the past.
It really reinforces the idea of flying within your own limits and the aircraft limits and sadly many overestimate their own limits or the aircraft limits some of us get away with it. But especially carrying such a precious cargo brings a special responsibility.
My feelings and that is all they are is that the winds had more to play in what appears to be a stall and crash.
I have flown in conditions where the ASI is leaping up and down 25 to 30 kts with severe windshear.
Not a time to be flying low level near the stall or for that matter near the normal VREF. One massive downdraught ?
But as I said just an instinct it could have been disregard for airspeed while peering into the gloom or overbanking again at too slow a speed.
Very very sad
Pace
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Some speculation. He was picking up from Dunkeswell and then going on to Cardiff. Not a quick trip by road but a short hop in an aircraft. Probably explains wanting to press on regardless. The nearest weather forecast for Dunkeswell is Exeter, 10.2 nm SW. Exeter is 100ft elevation, Dunkeswell is 850ft. Maybe he thought the weather was better than it was.
A very very tragic story and made worse looking at the family pics shown. One hates to say it but it seems to me that to be succesful in business and to make a good pilot there are some conflicting personal qualities.
Humility and caution are it seems important qualities in a pilot but they are not much of a recipe for business success . Equally drive and single mindedness are valuable business skills but for a pilot-hmm not so sure .
What kind of licence is required for something like the TBM, which despite being a prop single is nothing at all like a C150 and frankly looks apretty hot ship where things can go wrong very very quickly if youare not trained and experienced.
Not looking to denigrate the poor guy at all but it does seem a big ask for a guy with limited time for flying to take something like this aloft on a day when the birds would choose to walk.
Humility and caution are it seems important qualities in a pilot but they are not much of a recipe for business success . Equally drive and single mindedness are valuable business skills but for a pilot-hmm not so sure .
What kind of licence is required for something like the TBM, which despite being a prop single is nothing at all like a C150 and frankly looks apretty hot ship where things can go wrong very very quickly if youare not trained and experienced.
Not looking to denigrate the poor guy at all but it does seem a big ask for a guy with limited time for flying to take something like this aloft on a day when the birds would choose to walk.
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PB
It was a Mirage which is a piston powered pressurised single the TBM is a Turboprop, just a small correction.
But yes there are pilots who are PPLs and will fly in most weather and do a pretty good job but I stress it takes a lot of experience a lot of spatial awareness and an ability to pick up your game to whatever is required which can be lacking in many PPLs especially those with low experience
i stress fly within your limits but know and respect what your limits are as well as the aircraft especially when your cargo is so precious.
I can look back and think of occasions when Mother luck was on my side but thats looking back from a different place now.
Pace
It was a Mirage which is a piston powered pressurised single the TBM is a Turboprop, just a small correction.
But yes there are pilots who are PPLs and will fly in most weather and do a pretty good job but I stress it takes a lot of experience a lot of spatial awareness and an ability to pick up your game to whatever is required which can be lacking in many PPLs especially those with low experience
i stress fly within your limits but know and respect what your limits are as well as the aircraft especially when your cargo is so precious.
I can look back and think of occasions when Mother luck was on my side but thats looking back from a different place now.
Pace
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What about the plausible scenario that this low time pilot panicked in IMC, lost control of the aeroplane and ended up spinning in?
Disoriented, panicking possibly and in a new HP plane with his most precious cargo (family) on board doesn't seem like a good place to be in those conditions.
Does anyone know the pilots hours/experience and if he was IMC or IR rated?
Disoriented, panicking possibly and in a new HP plane with his most precious cargo (family) on board doesn't seem like a good place to be in those conditions.
Does anyone know the pilots hours/experience and if he was IMC or IR rated?
Last edited by anderow; 18th Nov 2015 at 15:04.
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The photos we have been linked into suggest to me that the wreckage was in line - the result of a straight stall rather than of a spin.
At five miles out, the pilot had no need to poke about at low level yet.
My money is on a loss of power at safety height or early on the glide path.
He should not have been low on fuel if he only came from Sussex.
He might have been subject to engine icing, unaware of it but losing power irreparably once he had throttled back for his descent into Dunkeswell.
In the weather prevailing, he would have been gliding in cloud to the last moment. He might have had a last second choice either to fly into what obstacles presented themselves or to pull back on the stick to avoid them. The former might have been his better choice.
At five miles out, the pilot had no need to poke about at low level yet.
My money is on a loss of power at safety height or early on the glide path.
He should not have been low on fuel if he only came from Sussex.
He might have been subject to engine icing, unaware of it but losing power irreparably once he had throttled back for his descent into Dunkeswell.
In the weather prevailing, he would have been gliding in cloud to the last moment. He might have had a last second choice either to fly into what obstacles presented themselves or to pull back on the stick to avoid them. The former might have been his better choice.
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Pilot wasn't shy in announcing on social media obtaining his PPL and his new aeroplane. No mention of an IMC rating or I/R. Many instances of VFR pilots getting into difficulties in IMC in this aeroplane.
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Does anyone know what the weather actually was at Dunkeswell around the time of accident? And presumably the pilot would have been told of this on RT given he was only 5 miles away.
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Rlsbutler - coming a short distance doesn't mean fuel is very unlikely to be a cause - depends on the pilot's refuelling plans. The headwind would certainly have been very big and flight time much longer than in still air. And maybe fuel was a lot cheaper at Dunkeswell - I've no idea, but a thought. And there was no fire by the look of it.
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If he wasn't instrument qualified, then the conditions on the day were pretty poor throughout the UK from recollection of the TAFs and from flying that day further north. I think at Dunkeswell the cloudbase will have been sub 500ft with poor viz, hopefully someone can confirm weather conditions there at the time.
An engine failure is one option but unlikely IMO and wouldn't have resulted in the high speed vertical impact unless the pilot had stalled it while gliding.
I think far more likely is the conditions quickly overtook his skill and experience levels (and qualifications) and he got disorientated and stalled it or lost control completely.
RIP to them all
An engine failure is one option but unlikely IMO and wouldn't have resulted in the high speed vertical impact unless the pilot had stalled it while gliding.
I think far more likely is the conditions quickly overtook his skill and experience levels (and qualifications) and he got disorientated and stalled it or lost control completely.
RIP to them all
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Without a valid IR, when an IFR routing is a must, it cannot be planned. By definition therefore it becomes a VFR plan. I don`t know the wx conditions on the day for the whole of the planned/intended routing, but if vis and cloud base were not present to conduct the flight under VFR then mechanical malfunction or not risk was significantly increased and flight safety margins were reduced if not compromised.
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From what I gathered he stated that this was a new toy and he needed to learn to fly it but that was 2 years ago so I am sure he would have had some experience by now.
you don't buy a Mirage without an IR as its a pressurised single designed to fly in the high teens.
My guess is that he would have held an FAA IR but would have had relatively low hours.
You don't buy a Mirage for low level VFR flight but make use of its TAS high level
N reg with an FAA IR you would file IFR in UK airspace. On short runs and the fact that the Mirage is not the best climber on the planet it would probably fly IFR OCAS at 3000 to 7000 feet with a cloud break over a known point for the position flight or he tried to fly VFR under the clouds never a good option in bad weather close to the ground.
Again there would be radar traces and altitude readouts as well as RT communication recorded
i believe it was windy that day and reaching low level possible wind shear. take the transition from instrument flight to visual flight confusuion and maybe incorrect speed for the conditions while looking into the gloom for the airfield and its easy to see how a stall may occur
Pace
you don't buy a Mirage without an IR as its a pressurised single designed to fly in the high teens.
My guess is that he would have held an FAA IR but would have had relatively low hours.
You don't buy a Mirage for low level VFR flight but make use of its TAS high level
N reg with an FAA IR you would file IFR in UK airspace. On short runs and the fact that the Mirage is not the best climber on the planet it would probably fly IFR OCAS at 3000 to 7000 feet with a cloud break over a known point for the position flight or he tried to fly VFR under the clouds never a good option in bad weather close to the ground.
Again there would be radar traces and altitude readouts as well as RT communication recorded
i believe it was windy that day and reaching low level possible wind shear. take the transition from instrument flight to visual flight confusuion and maybe incorrect speed for the conditions while looking into the gloom for the airfield and its easy to see how a stall may occur
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 18th Nov 2015 at 23:23.
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I would never speculate as to the actual cause of this tragedy. However I have looked at the NTSB figures for the PA-46.
On their database there have been 66 fatal and 153 non-fatal accidents on this type so far with the loss of 151 lives.
On their database there have been 66 fatal and 153 non-fatal accidents on this type so far with the loss of 151 lives.