Yet ANOTHER runway incursion incident - KJFK 17/4/2024
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That’s Canada. USA technically always require Heavy. In practice “Center” don’t want it but everyone from Approach to Ramp, and Ramp to Departure insist on it every transmission.
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What is this clearing an aeroplane to land when the one that has just aborted a take-off is still on the runway?? Aborts (especially on a 'heavy'?) can lead to high brake temperatures, etc.
I was happy flying into/out of LHR where any aeroplane in the runway area was on Tower frequency and landing clearances were only given when the runway area was clear (and sometimes given very low -- I heard someone acknowledging his landing clearance once with the rad alt call of "one hundred" in the background!).
CDG have you on Tower frequency for runway crossing, but they insist on speaking another language to so many aeroplanes that situational awareness goes out of the window!! (The Bulgarian that crossed in front of a departing 'heavy' was a good example of this problem -- early March 2020?) And then CDG clear you to land when the one ahead has not even landed, let alone vacated the runway area... They must be at as high a risk of (another!) runway collision as these US airports!
Good red stop bars controlled by the Tower controller has to be the best solution?
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FAR AIM 7.4.8 c
Not ‘massaging egos’
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In this incident, it is possible that the runway entrance lights (REL) for runway 4L illuminated late in the incident sequence as the system is designed to illuminate only when the departing aircraft exceeds 30 knots or a landing aircraft is within 1 mile. AvHerald reports that the SWR RTO was about 40 knots. The four crossing aircraft obviously had a valid ATC clearance to cross and the REL guidance is for the pilot to use their best judgment if the RELs illuminate after crossing the hold bar. Also note that runway 4L at JFK does not have takeoff hold lights installed (installed only on 31L).
In the January 2023 incident, the NTSB performance study determined that the nose of the AAL 777 had just crossed the runway 4L hold bar at J as the RELs illuminated.
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Ex ATC, Gatwick tower and Dubai tower. This is a shocking incident, well done Swiss. 4 aircraft cleared to cross the runway, whilst the Swiss was cleared for take off!!!!! OMG. Sorry JFK ATC this can’t be defended in anyway. As has already been said, any aircraft crossing a runway should be on the same frequency as those landing or departing from it.
I am sure there is some form of procedure between tower and ground, to prevent the above, well I would hope there is, but in this occasion that failed, and there was a breakdown in communication between the tower and ground controller.
I am sure there is some form of procedure between tower and ground, to prevent the above, well I would hope there is, but in this occasion that failed, and there was a breakdown in communication between the tower and ground controller.
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Same as with Boeing. If its too expensive and/or slow to do something the safe way, then the management cuts some corners and keeps fingers crossed...
Plus: Its high time digital and AI concepts are proposed and introduced to replace dinosaurs bidirectional analog voice channels as the main ATC communication framework. Then data can be displayed, selected and filtered to whom it concerns (e.g using the same or crossing runways)
Plus: Its high time digital and AI concepts are proposed and introduced to replace dinosaurs bidirectional analog voice channels as the main ATC communication framework. Then data can be displayed, selected and filtered to whom it concerns (e.g using the same or crossing runways)
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SA in De Gaulle
Ego?? Or do I spot 'envy'?!!
What is this clearing an aeroplane to land when the one that has just aborted a take-off is still on the runway?? Aborts (especially on a 'heavy'?) can lead to high brake temperatures, etc.
I was happy flying into/out of LHR where any aeroplane in the runway area was on Tower frequency and landing clearances were only given when the runway area was clear (and sometimes given very low -- I heard someone acknowledging his landing clearance once with the rad alt call of "one hundred" in the background!).
CDG have you on Tower frequency for runway crossing, but they insist on speaking another language to so many aeroplanes that situational awareness goes out of the window!! (The Bulgarian that crossed in front of a departing 'heavy' was a good example of this problem -- early March 2020?) And then CDG clear you to land when the one ahead has not even landed, let alone vacated the runway area... They must be at as high a risk of (another!) runway collision as these US airports!
Good red stop bars controlled by the Tower controller has to be the best solution?
What is this clearing an aeroplane to land when the one that has just aborted a take-off is still on the runway?? Aborts (especially on a 'heavy'?) can lead to high brake temperatures, etc.
I was happy flying into/out of LHR where any aeroplane in the runway area was on Tower frequency and landing clearances were only given when the runway area was clear (and sometimes given very low -- I heard someone acknowledging his landing clearance once with the rad alt call of "one hundred" in the background!).
CDG have you on Tower frequency for runway crossing, but they insist on speaking another language to so many aeroplanes that situational awareness goes out of the window!! (The Bulgarian that crossed in front of a departing 'heavy' was a good example of this problem -- early March 2020?) And then CDG clear you to land when the one ahead has not even landed, let alone vacated the runway area... They must be at as high a risk of (another!) runway collision as these US airports!
Good red stop bars controlled by the Tower controller has to be the best solution?
agree. With so much French being spoken, it’s near impossible to work out what’s actually going on unless you have a good working knowledge of the language. Clearing you to land while number xyz on approach is crazy!
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When I flew on the e190, it was nice to know whether the aircraft 4NM in front of us on the localizer was a heavy or not, for both wake and runway occupancy after landing.
But outside of the US I rarely hear "heavy" being used that much, except maybe one in a while when checking in on tower, but again, that might help others building a mental picture.
And if course the Americans use it a lot also outside of the US, but they are used to it.
But outside of the US I rarely hear "heavy" being used that much, except maybe one in a while when checking in on tower, but again, that might help others building a mental picture.
And if course the Americans use it a lot also outside of the US, but they are used to it.
When I flew on the e190, it was nice to know whether the aircraft 4NM in front of us on the localizer was a heavy or not, for both wake and runway occupancy after landing.
But outside of the US I rarely hear "heavy" being used that much, except maybe one in a while when checking in on tower, but again, that might help others building a mental picture.
And if course the Americans use it a lot also outside of the US, but they are used to it.
But outside of the US I rarely hear "heavy" being used that much, except maybe one in a while when checking in on tower, but again, that might help others building a mental picture.
And if course the Americans use it a lot also outside of the US, but they are used to it.
I would rather have that extra situational awareness than have any opinions on people's "egos"!