Yet ANOTHER runway incursion incident - KJFK 17/4/2024

[violator]

You Tube

[BFSGrad]

Had to watch this video twice because it was such an OMG event. Same runway where the Delta/American runway incursion occurred. This runway does have runway entrance lights at all the crossing locations for the crossing aircraft in this incident. Very troubling that Swiss initiated the RTO rather than ATC.

Note, if you view the starting post for this thread and only see blank space, try a different browser. This problem has been flagged to website admin years ago and continues. When I view the initial post on this thread with DuckDuckGo browser that includes ad block, I see blank space. When viewed with Safari browser without ad block, I see the video thumbnail graphic.

[GALWC]

BFS, I'm the same. I use Safari on Apple computers, and for at least a year I only have blank spaces.

[bnt]

No problem with the video on Firefox with privacy addons, but here's the URL:

Code:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW6lAwLy_Os

You don't have to be a pilot or ATC to know this was egregious.

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

Anything Washington can do, New York can do better?

Edit: Noted that this JFK incident was actually the day before DCA. It seems a very alien concept from where I am that Ground controller issues runway crossings, and not the controller managing the runway movements.

[DogTailRed2]

Is it usual to cross traffic on a runway where aircraft are cleared to take off?

[DIBO]

Maybe the Mods can merge the KDCA and KJFK threads as it is more of the same

[waito]

Gosh, these JFK ATC guys need to learn proper English! Pronunciation is on level with Chinese Pilots, but half the syllables.

Yes, no one catched the error but the Swiss crew. Strange.

[ATC Watcher]

Trying again to move too many aircraft at the same time .and bypassing old basic rules. Should be one runway one frequency .But in this doing so will slow down traffic ,and probably done like this since years, normalization of deviance that bite you some day. On this audio clip , towards the end , hearing the same controller giving a " clear to land" with a aircraft having just rejected take off still on the runway is another question mark for a non US Controller.
They also were lucky it was good visibility and the Swiss could see the crossings .

Maybe the Mods can merge the KDCA and KJFK threads as it is more of the same

Well, not really , in DCA the controller realized the situation very early on and cancelled the take off clearance . Here in JFK it is the pilot that initiated the rejection , a very different situation

[DIBO]

Originally Posted by ATC Watcher

Well, not really , in DCA the controller realized the situation very early on and cancelled the take off clearance . Here in JFK it is the pilot that initiated the rejection , a very different situation

Pending the final report, the root cause that needs to be investigated seems to be in both cases: one Rwy/two ATCO's/two Freqs.
Who acted upon these close calls, is more driven by circumstances, than the book of rules.

And the Swiss had the advantage of knowing their cheese better than anyone else

[GlobalNav]

Originally Posted by DogTailRed2

Is it usual to cross traffic on a runway where aircraft are cleared to take off?

Absolutely.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by GALWC

BFS, I'm the same. I use Safari on Apple computers, and for at least a year I only have blank spaces.

Is this any better?

[LOWI]

Well done to the Swiss colleagues who remained professional on frequency. I guarantee that a lot of swearing was said in the flight deck and rightly so!

You Americans are determined to get a runway collision aren't you?

Some serious investigation needs to be done ASAP before blood, bodies and aircraft parts are spread across a runway soon in the Land of the Free!

[bean]

Originally Posted by LOWI

Well done to the Swiss colleagues who remained professional on frequency. I guarantee that a lot of swearing was said in the flight deck and rightly so!

You Americans are determined to get a runway collision aren't you?

Some serious investigation needs to be done ASAP before blood, bodies and aircraft parts are spread across a runway soon in the Land of the Free!

It is only a matter of time

[bean]

Another one. Tower controller clears Frontier to cross then same controller clears Spirit
for take off and only belatedly tells Frontier to hold short

You Tube

[GALWC]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Is this any better?

Just the open spaces, but thanks

[Capn Bloggs]

Madness.

Should be one runway one frequency .But in this doing so will slow down traffic

We did try this a few years ago and it was a dog's breakfast. People going backwards and forwards on Ground and Tower was deemed just as bad so we went back to this system.

What's with all the "Heavy"s? Initial contact only, isn't it?

[Bug]

Originally Posted by GALWC

Just the open spaces, but thanks

In past I have had same problem and found a quick work around of clicking Quote at bottom right of the post containing missing video link.
The quote will come up and show the link.
Possibly someone else has suggested this - if so my apologies.

[Chesty Morgan]

Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs

What's with all the "Heavy"s? Initial contact only, isn't it?

Massaging egos.

[GALWC]

Originally Posted by Bug

In past I have had same problem and found a quick work around of clicking Quote at bottom right of the post containing missing video link.
The quote will come up and show the link.
Possibly someone else has suggested this - if so my apologies.

A measure of success on playing around - clicking on 'Thread Tools' top right above originators thread, then click on 'Show Printable Version' and the video is revealed. Quicker than searching You Tube, so many thanks.