JAL incident at Haneda Airport
Given that latest video is authentic we now know:
The Dash 8 was not about to enter from Twy C5! We can rule that out.
IF it was about to enter, then from Twy C6 - and at an angle. But I think entry of C6 was too far down the rwy to explain the very near impact from latest video
Most likely the Dash 8 Coast Guard aircraft already had entered from C5 and was lined up waiting stationary.
So from a visibility standpoint it was harder to detect for the A350 crew. When the incursion started and in motion, they were further away.
The Dash 8 was not about to enter from Twy C5! We can rule that out.
IF it was about to enter, then from Twy C6 - and at an angle. But I think entry of C6 was too far down the rwy to explain the very near impact from latest video
Most likely the Dash 8 Coast Guard aircraft already had entered from C5 and was lined up waiting stationary.
So from a visibility standpoint it was harder to detect for the A350 crew. When the incursion started and in motion, they were further away.
Somebody very early on in the thread sarcastically commented abut the early reporting of the accident and it ‘not being related to the earthquake’.
I think we’re going to find it has EVERYTHING to do with the earthquake and the human factors related to haste is getting the Coast Guard aircraft on its way. Would be interested to know what , if any, FPL STatuS was being attributed to the CG flight.
Won’t be surprised to find a miscommunication somewhere between the Ground controller, the Runway Controller and the Coast Guard pilot leading to an inadvertent line up clearance being wrongly perceived.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Apple Maggot Quarantine Area
Age: 47
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In FAA advisory circular AC43-6D, "Altitude Reporting Equipment and Transponder System Maintenance and Inspection Practices", it is repeatedly referred to as an "ADS-B Transponder."
If you disagree with this use of terminology, I suggest that it would be more productive to direct your comments to Mr. Jackie Black, as he is the the current division manager of AFS-300, and has the authority to revise AC43-6D.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-black-66558a47
The main question.
¿Was the A359 STILL ALOFT in the C5 zone?
¿Isn't it not very FAR from the recommended touchdown point (cause apparently the A359 pilots were more than handly at the moment of the hurry)?
IF the collision with the Dash was in the C5 access, WHERE was the Dash facing?
C5 is NOT a crossing (to nowhere/water).
There are only two possibilities: was on the TO procedure (had to be waved and confirmed) or doing nonsense because that's not a place to HOLD.
¿Was the A359 STILL ALOFT in the C5 zone?
¿Isn't it not very FAR from the recommended touchdown point (cause apparently the A359 pilots were more than handly at the moment of the hurry)?
IF the collision with the Dash was in the C5 access, WHERE was the Dash facing?
C5 is NOT a crossing (to nowhere/water).
There are only two possibilities: was on the TO procedure (had to be waved and confirmed) or doing nonsense because that's not a place to HOLD.
This absolute tragedy should give impetus to mandating runway status lights installation around the World which are currently used at major airports in the USA and first developed after the terrible accident in LAX. A completely independent system with no human input using microwave sensors which turn on centreline lighting in the TDZ plus holding points illuminate lights RED if the runway is occupied. And whilst we are there reduce the intensity of the new LEDs. You cant see much because they're are so bright.
In this case, if it was a runway incursion, the centre line lights would have illuminated RED. Don't land.
In this case, if it was a runway incursion, the centre line lights would have illuminated RED. Don't land.
The DHC-8 props may have added to the A350 damage by severing lines. Let's be grateful that the hydraulics to the brakes were still working and that the crew were not incapacitated. They could have ended up in the drink or hitting more aircraft or structures.
Correct. Half the spotters and puddle jumper pilots have never seen a commercial airliner approach to a major airport. Done jumpseat so see the work load. No idea on if the weather was crosswinds or lumpy. So many nobodies on this thread as usual.
True. 5 dead could have been nearly 400.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JAL Collision
I won't try to speculate the cause of this horrific collision, but one thing that is obvious was the amazing speed at which the A-350 was evacuated!
A testament to the training and professionalism of the JAL Flight Attendants. Yes, the same hard working miracle workers we disrespect and abuse, as of late.
Furthermore, it was the disciplined Japanese passengers who did not try to argue or grab their belongings, following the commands of their crew. I think this may have had an entirely different outcome had it happened in the West!
A testament to the training and professionalism of the JAL Flight Attendants. Yes, the same hard working miracle workers we disrespect and abuse, as of late.
Furthermore, it was the disciplined Japanese passengers who did not try to argue or grab their belongings, following the commands of their crew. I think this may have had an entirely different outcome had it happened in the West!
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NHK are reporting that a source from the Transport ministry has confirmed the Dash 8 was ordered to hold short of the runway.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_07/
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_07/
ITN news are so on the ball on News at Ten!
NHK are reporting that a source from the Transport ministry has confirmed the Dash 8 was ordered to hold short of the runway.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_07/
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240103_07/
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was genuinely pleased that lessons have been learned and it took a fair bit of time to really get hold improving survivability. Airframes can be replaced. People can't
Last edited by Saab Dastard; 2nd Jan 2024 at 21:36. Reason: Quote of deleted posts removed
Hope that we get an accident report.
Currently my main questions are:
How did the Dash-8 wind up in "postion and hold" on an active landing runway? There is a clearance involved which requires a positive reply from the plane to the TWR controller.
So how did this communication broke down and why did the TWR controller lost the situational awareness?
Currently my main questions are:
How did the Dash-8 wind up in "postion and hold" on an active landing runway? There is a clearance involved which requires a positive reply from the plane to the TWR controller.
So how did this communication broke down and why did the TWR controller lost the situational awareness?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On FR24 there seems to be a Delta A330 holding near R34R threshold at the time the JAL aircraft was approaching to land. One must assume the Delta crew did not see the Dash 8 on the runway or they would surely have given a warning on the radio.
Nose Cone Damage
Pure speculation but given the damage to the nose cone, this wasn't from dragging along the ground, this was from impacting the Dash I would say, in which case I believe the Dash was on the runway and the A350 was perhaps still in the air (flare) and that the nose and left engine struck the Dash
Currently my main questions are:
How did the Dash-8 wind up in "postion and hold" on an active landing runway? There is a clearance involved which requires a positive reply from the plane to the TWR controller.
So how did this communication broke down and why did the TWR controller lost the situational awareness?
How did the Dash-8 wind up in "postion and hold" on an active landing runway? There is a clearance involved which requires a positive reply from the plane to the TWR controller.
So how did this communication broke down and why did the TWR controller lost the situational awareness?
Last edited by Saab Dastard; 2nd Jan 2024 at 21:40. Reason: Reference to deleted post edited
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I won't try to speculate the cause of this horrific collision, but one thing that is obvious was the amazing speed at which the A-350 was evacuated!
A testament to the training and professionalism of the JAL Flight Attendants. Yes, the same hard working miracle workers we disrespect and abuse, as of late.
Furthermore, it was the disciplined Japanese passengers who did not try to argue or grab their belongings, following the commands of their crew. I think this may have had an entirely different outcome had it happened in the West!
A testament to the training and professionalism of the JAL Flight Attendants. Yes, the same hard working miracle workers we disrespect and abuse, as of late.
Furthermore, it was the disciplined Japanese passengers who did not try to argue or grab their belongings, following the commands of their crew. I think this may have had an entirely different outcome had it happened in the West!
So true. Perhaps future safety briefings need to be a lot more blunt:
”In Tokyo, everyone left their bags and stuff behind … and everyone got out alive.”
Time to scrap the pc airline-corporate-speak.
Pure speculation but given the damage to the nose cone, this wasn't from dragging along the ground, this was from impacting the Dash I would say, in which case I believe the Dash was on the runway and the A350 was perhaps still in the air (flare) and that the nose and left engine struck the Dash