PA30 crash lands in Villejuif, Paris
PA30 crash lands in Villejuif, Paris
https://www.aerobuzz.fr/aviation-gen...e-a-villejuif/
80 year old instructor and pupils 28,29 injured after reporting technical issues and landing in road before crashing in to apartment building.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67620792
80 year old instructor and pupils 28,29 injured after reporting technical issues and landing in road before crashing in to apartment building.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67620792
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Age: 32
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trying to understand how they ended up over Villejuif. I’m guessing a STAR? But that would be a hold or point south east of the airport, and they were coming in from the Northwest. I guess they could have been doing practice approaches, since the instructor was an MEIR instructor
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Age: 32
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Found it on flight radar. I hope the 3 people recover. I cannot fathom might might have caused a dual engine failure other than fuel starvation. Perhaps it was a single engine failure and they flew it to the crash site, as is sometimes the case with these underpowered pistons.
lots of perhaps in my posts. I’ll shut up now
n
lots of perhaps in my posts. I’ll shut up now
n
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My first reaction also, but on second thought, have seen people turning 70 (even yesterday, a -retired- cardiologist) ready for a care home and on the other end, 80+ yo I wouldn't start a fight with...
Celebrated his 40.000hr milestone earlier this year, it seems
Celebrated his 40.000hr milestone earlier this year, it seems
undoubtedly will have played a part in it, but in the last second before impact, they had a great deal of luck. Putting the cabin pretty intact between a wall and a building, smashing the right wing to pieces, with the tail, as a perfect crumple zone, smashing on the wall. And the nose held in place with the help of the X-mas tree 
source:
Wonder what the weather conditions were, with that part of Europe transitioning on Monday from a pretty cold and snowy period, to freeze free days as from Tuesday.
They had been flying at FL80 from a while it seems, followed by a stable descent, until things went south. Not sure what kit was onboard if icing conditions were inadvertently entered. On the few photo's after it's 2020 overhaul and repaint, not much of such a kit can be seen on the plane.
source:
Wonder what the weather conditions were, with that part of Europe transitioning on Monday from a pretty cold and snowy period, to freeze free days as from Tuesday.
They had been flying at FL80 from a while it seems, followed by a stable descent, until things went south. Not sure what kit was onboard if icing conditions were inadvertently entered. On the few photo's after it's 2020 overhaul and repaint, not much of such a kit can be seen on the plane.
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: France
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trying to understand how they ended up over Villejuif. I’m guessing a STAR? But that would be a hold or point south east of the airport, and they were coming in from the Northwest. I guess they could have been doing practice approaches, since the instructor was an MEIR instructor
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: France
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tere is a video with images of the plane and an interview (in french) of the pilot that I will partly translate :
Since I'm new to the forum I cannot post URL so you can google "Atterrissage en urgence d'un avion à Villejuif : l’incroyable sang-froid du pilote france info" for the details :
"We have the right engine that started to loose power.
The student thought that I was faking a failure as I keep faking failures during training flights
and then the second engine started to loose power as well.
This is exceptional...., it cannot happen... well it does.
I identified a platform so we flew toward and reached it.
The luck made that the right wing touched the side of the building
and induced a spin to the aircraft that came to rest on a small wall
and absorbed all the kinetic energy that would most probably have killed us
if we had taken the wall in front.
It is a pride to have saved the lives of people underneath us and of the
two students...and also of mine."
Since I'm new to the forum I cannot post URL so you can google "Atterrissage en urgence d'un avion à Villejuif : l’incroyable sang-froid du pilote france info" for the details :
"We have the right engine that started to loose power.
The student thought that I was faking a failure as I keep faking failures during training flights
and then the second engine started to loose power as well.
This is exceptional...., it cannot happen... well it does.
I identified a platform so we flew toward and reached it.
The luck made that the right wing touched the side of the building
and induced a spin to the aircraft that came to rest on a small wall
and absorbed all the kinetic energy that would most probably have killed us
if we had taken the wall in front.
It is a pride to have saved the lives of people underneath us and of the
two students...and also of mine."
So, no fire after two engines cease running and most every part opened like a can of tuna?
Methinks someone thought someone else was supposed to fill it with gas.
Methinks someone thought someone else was supposed to fill it with gas.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engine failure: A situation that occurs when all fuel tanks become totally filled with air.
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: France
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Del Prado thanks for the link. It is also interesting, but the translation I put was from this video http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-div...e_6233430.html (removed the leading part of the URL)
where the pilot himself is describing the situation.
I like the animation in the TF1 video though.
where the pilot himself is describing the situation.
I like the animation in the TF1 video though.
hi del prado thanks for the link. It is also interesting, but the translation i put was from this video http://www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-div...e_6233430.html (removed the leading part of the url)
where the pilot himself is describing the situation.
I like the animation in the tf1 video though.
where the pilot himself is describing the situation.
I like the animation in the tf1 video though.
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes my first thought too but the pilot/FI said "loss of power" (perte de puissance) not "engine failure" , on one engine and he also said that the student (PF) thought it was an action by the instructor . That bring another possibility in the possible scenarios., of switching off the wrong engine .But we'll see when the report is out . Lucky escape that's for sure.
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a long interview of the pilot (J.P. Trimaille the FI ) of that flight in the March issue of INFO PILOTE ( French GA magazine ) he said there were on an IFR LPV approach for 25 in Toussus at 4000 ft descending for 3000 when the first engine stopped, the student ( already a CPL ) believed it was an exercise and followed the procedure but almost immediately after the second engine stopped, . He immediately took over from the Student and both tried to restart with fuel pump ,changed tanks etc, but losing alt fast .. It was almost night . a large avenue straight ahead , but full of cars , he chose a smaller space between 2 big buildings also almost straight ahead , he said he took arbitrarily 70 Kts as a compromise to stay above stall and minimize impact speed. he planned to hit the buildings with the end of wings ( the outer half wings ) to dissipate energy . All worked out almost as planed, the right wing hit the right building first which spinned the a/c which landed with little vertical energy. The door could be opened and they walked out. His lesson : keep speed to avoid stall, choose a place to put it down somewhere straight ahead. and fly the aircraft until the end
There was only 1 min 50 sec between the double failure and impact . So much for an 82 years old with 40.000 h . He is back flying again as an FI .I'll go with him any day.
He does not know (yet) what caused the double failure., the BEA is looking into it.
There was only 1 min 50 sec between the double failure and impact . So much for an 82 years old with 40.000 h . He is back flying again as an FI .I'll go with him any day.
He does not know (yet) what caused the double failure., the BEA is looking into it.
He does not know (yet) what caused the double failure., the BEA is looking into it.
We had a PA-30-160 similarly suffer a double engine failure in the early 1980s en-route Southend to Doncaster. Luckily it was daytime VMC and our Chief Pilot was flying the aircraft. He issued a Mayday call and headed for RAF Barkston Heath while trying to restart the engines. While on finals for a dead-stick landing one engine did restart but he continued with the landing as being the wisest choice. RAF Cranwell sent over a vehicle to collect the two pax and took them to the nearest rail station to continue their journey. Our Chief Engineer flew up to examine the aircraft and despite extensive checks and ground runs could find no fault so flew back with the aircraft to Southend.
So we never found the cause of the incident and nothing of the like ever happened again. There was a slightly amusing aspect to this in that I was in a meeting with a client who wanted to discuss a new contract and an Ops Officer rushed in to say that " ***** has just declared a Mayday." I told him I would come through in a moment and the client looked at me and said "Mayday? That's serious isn't it?" to which I replied "It can be. Please excuse me for a few minutes." We got the new contract.