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Navy P8 overrun into water - Hawaii 20 Nov 23

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Navy P8 overrun into water - Hawaii 20 Nov 23

Old 23rd Nov 2023, 10:36
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight
Hummmm....a lil bit suspicious indeed...

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Be interesting in 20 years to see how many such incidents/accidents the B737MAX series will have racked up.
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 03:47
  #42 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Not Long Here
There used to be quite a nice setup at Barbers Point as well

which used to have a harpoon missile on a post out front of the O''s mess. Which did a little bit of where's Waldo?
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 04:19
  #43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight
Hummmm....a lil bit suspicious indeed...

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The B737NG introduced a simplified flap system and a slight change in the inboard LE hi lift device. The outcome is a lower cost of fabrication, the bill for the flaps being about 3% of the total cost of manufacture. The "improvement by going to the fewer elements in the system was a cost saving of... 0.5% or something close to that, but a higher Vs1g, so up went the Vref and that leads to higher KE to get rid of. The HUD improves touchdown accuracy, if it isn't stowed at the time. Still, they would have had a base Vref in the '30's, plus TWC, ISA+, a GS of over 150Kts. on a wet runway, with a tailwind? did we mention a tailwind? Yes it can be done safely, but the guys have to be on the targets for every part, and it is still not without risk. Any auto function that hangs up is going to chew up runway quickly.

I'm not sure the cost saving was justified with the routine. The NG's (and MAX) CL in TO and landing configuration sucks. That can be reduced by around 13-15KTAS with a fairly straight forward mod if the fleet doesn't want to fit a hook at the blunt end. I flew this mod, bot only on the more effective CL flaps, gave a pleasant reduction in VS1g, reduced the buffet loads on the flap and most importantly the flap tracks which are a design weirdness, the track design could have lowered loads to the track, or increase them depending on a single design choice, guess what was the chosen geometry. I wasn't targeting stall particularly, intent was delayed Mcrit & Mdd to get cruise drag down and to reduce vibration. That also lowered the root bending moment, was a fun change. To STC, it's about 15 months, and needs the NG airframe and a small bag of kwon. That would cost less to certify than the damage bill to the insurers every month. It would be a UKCAA STC first up, and BIASA across to the FAA, DOD would be by M/STC.

The MAX is more of the same. The MCAS is not adversely affected by this type of mod, even with a bending relief going on, the overall effect is an improved longitudinal static stability. MCAS was a kludge fix to what could have been resolved with another simple aero mod, which involves removing something, not more baandaids.
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 14:47
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737 v 320 ovr

Not a complete list. Overrun events vs year (so excluding excursions and others ). From the 737 events about half are -800. So -800 same as 320 total.



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Old 25th Nov 2023, 08:16
  #45 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by LostinATX
total loss or is anything likely to be salvageable from this airframe?

The roof lining?

FLY NAVY!
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Old 25th Nov 2023, 15:09
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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FDR recovered.

Navy crews recover flight data recorder from downed plane in Kaneohe Bay
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Old 28th Nov 2023, 14:13
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In a 27 November update on salvage operations, navy officials said Poseidon number 561 remains structurally intact, including the aircraft’s fuel system, which has been successfully drained.

Notably, a survey by salvage divers has concluded that the jet’s landing gear remain intact and are currently supporting the aircraft body.

Lenox says, given the structurally intact landing gear, two options are being considered. The first is to use salvage floats to lift the P-8 from its resting place and push the aircraft within range of a ground-based crane, which would then lift it back onto the runway.

The second option would use salvage floats to lift the P-8, which would then be rolled to shore using its landing gear.

US Navy hopes to restore crashed Hawaii P-8 to flight status
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 06:32
  #48 (permalink)  
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Video of underwater survey prior to recovery attempts.

I presume the ropes are to hold it in place rather than try to drag it out…..

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Old 30th Nov 2023, 19:24
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Saw something yesterday suggesting they plan to repair the aircraft and return it to service, although I suspect the final determination of that will depend on what they find when they get it out of the water.
I suspect the electronics in the E-bay are scrap after being immersed in salt water, but much of the pricey mission specific stuff is on the main deck - most of which appears to be high and dry.
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Old 1st Dec 2023, 13:03
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Originally Posted by tdracer
Saw something yesterday suggesting they plan to repair the aircraft and return it to service, although I suspect the final determination of that will depend on what they find when they get it out of the water.
I suspect the electronics in the E-bay are scrap after being immersed in salt water, but much of the pricey mission specific stuff is on the main deck - most of which appears to be high and dry.
If the battery was not disconnected or switched off ASAP they will have one hell of a corroded wiring mess to deal with.
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Old 1st Dec 2023, 15:32
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Originally Posted by island_airphoto
If the battery was not disconnected or switched off ASAP they will have one hell of a corroded wiring mess to deal with.
I would think the wires are going to corroded one way or another But you do bring up an interesting point. Turning off the battery is one thing, but I have never thought about those items on the HOT battery buss (assuming there is one) that would require the battery to be disconnected to remove power.

There is history of aircraft being re-built after a swim. JAL's DC-8 comes to mind, but that is a world of difference in electronics.
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Old 1st Dec 2023, 15:36
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer
I suspect the electronics in the E-bay are scrap after being immersed in salt water, but much of the pricey mission specific stuff is on the main deck - most of which appears to be high and dry.
Things we may never know.... It will be interesting to see if they can return the aircraft to service. All I can think of are all those high density connectors with salt... I wonder if they would have to just re-wire the aircraft.
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Old 2nd Dec 2023, 14:26
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The U.S. Navy plans to use inflatable cylinders to lift and roll a jet plane off a coral reef in Hawaii before removal from the ocean waters where the aircraft crashed on Nov. 20.

Lenox said he expected the removal operation to get underway on Saturday. He didn’t want to commit to a date when the work would be done given the weather and other conditions that could affect the timeline.

Contractors began sliding the bags under the plane on Friday. When inflated, the bags will float across the water toward the runway. When they reach land, machines will pull and roll them onto and across the runway.

US Navy plans to raise jet plane off Hawaii coral reef using inflatable cylinders
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Old 2nd Dec 2023, 14:46
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
Maybe the hills and populated areas to the SW?
The island (Oahu) slopes up steeply south thru west, there’s an island about 2nm west of the approach to 04 that, due to noise, must not be overflown. Been there many times, TACAN 22, circle north to land 04.
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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 15:02
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I think it moved!
--George Costanza

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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 23:24
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The Navy announced they ‘safely’ recovered the military plane that overshot the runway and has been stuck in Kaneohe Bay for almost two weeks.

Officials say the operation lasted 13 hours, beginning at 6:30 a.m., Dec. 2. The aircraft was floated adjacent to the runway by 10:18 a.m. And the last portion of the airframe, the nose wheel, lifted out of the water at 7 p.m., Dec. 2.

Navy ‘safely’ recovers military spy plane stuck in Kaneohe Bay for almost 2 weeks
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Old 17th Dec 2023, 03:35
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Old 17th Dec 2023, 14:49
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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At least being a military aircraft it won't be the subject of an insurance claim. One does wonder when the hull insurance industry will start to move on 737-800s being operated into shortish, wet runways.
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