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Navy P8 overrun into water - Hawaii 20 Nov 23

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Navy P8 overrun into water - Hawaii 20 Nov 23

Old 21st Nov 2023, 20:22
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Taking sub-hunting to a new level....
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 21:03
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 21:51
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I looked at a one or two online charts, not a Jepp. Don’t think runway is grooved.
Runway 22 elevation 23.0 Runway 4 elevation 12.0 feet. No precision makings on RWY4.
Terrain east likely the issue.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 00:47
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Originally Posted by EDLB
Wind from 070 14kn gusting 21kn and they landed on runway 22. Or did I miss something?
Maybe the hills and populated areas to the SW?
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 01:24
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Back in the day, if you wore Navy Wings Of Gold you were carrier qualified even if you might be currently flying a transport, anti-submarine, patrol, or other non carrier aircraft. At least you know something about landing.
But not anymore. I don't have any direct knowledge, but I would bet this P-8 pilot was not a typical carrier qualified Naval Aviator because these days it's cheaper to eliminate that phase of flight training from some groups..

Shame on the Navy for not teaching all their Aviators how to land.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 02:06
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Originally Posted by Mozella
Back in the day, if you wore Navy Wings Of Gold you were carrier qualified even if you might be currently flying a transport, anti-submarine, patrol, or other non carrier aircraft. At least you know something about landing.
But not anymore.
Puzzled by that comment. Back in the day (WWII), my naval aviator father never came anywhere near a U.S. aircraft carrier and ended up flying large transports. Im not aware that the USN every sent all of its aviators through carrier qualification. That would seem to be expensive and pointless. Dont current P-8 pilots go T-6, T-44, P-8?

I suspect our intrepid P-8 pilots in this accident fell prey to many of the same errors suffered during the 2019 NAS Jax 737 overrun.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 03:35
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Im not aware that the USN every sent all of its aviators through carrier qualification
They certainly did when I went through in 1967, even those destined for helicopters, who did their carrier quals flying the T-28, those going multi got two bites of the cherry, quals in the T-28 and then again in the S-2 Tracker which was the multi trainer, the carrier Lexington was dedicated full time to the training program home ported in Pensacola. No idea of the current set up.



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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 05:37
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Who on earth makes landing training with a 737-800 on a 7700 feet runway with 20kn gusting tailwind?
That may work or may not as in this case.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 11:22
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Originally Posted by Mozella
Back in the day, if you wore Navy Wings Of Gold you were carrier qualified even if you might be currently flying a transport, anti-submarine, patrol, or other non carrier aircraft. At least you know something about landing.
But not anymore. I don't have any direct knowledge, but I would bet this P-8 pilot was not a typical carrier qualified Naval Aviator because these days it's cheaper to eliminate that phase of flight training from some groups..

Shame on the Navy for not teaching all their Aviators how to land.
Tosh.

Aviators the world over and every day manage safe landings, on runways, in a massive range of aeroplanes and conditions, safely, without having at any point being taught how to land on an aircraft carrier. Whatever went wrong here, and ultimately we have no idea about the details yet - I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't have been solved by this multi-engine transport aeroplane pilot knowing, or not knowing, how to land a fighter on a ship.

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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 13:09
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According to some news, the crew swam ashore. With the airplane sitting in the bottom why not wait for a boat? Or perhaps no dinghy on a Navy plane?
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 13:31
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Isnt this just another case of a 737-8 running out of runway in the wet with a tailwind. They seem to do it regularly but there are a lot of them so that probably raises the profile
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 15:26
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Originally Posted by Mozella
Back in the day, if you wore Navy Wings Of Gold you were carrier qualified even if you might be currently flying a transport, anti-submarine, patrol, or other non carrier aircraft. At least you know something about landing.
But not anymore. I don't have any direct knowledge, but I would bet this P-8 pilot was not a typical carrier qualified Naval Aviator because these days it's cheaper to eliminate that phase of flight training from some groups..

Shame on the Navy for not teaching all their Aviators how to land.
Maybe WAY back in the day. My naval aviator buddy who went to flight school when I did in the 80s never went near a carrier, he was off learning to fly C-130s after doing the T-34 and King Air training, neither one of which landed on carriers.
Pilots all over the world who have never been near a boat land into the wind and stay on the runway most days, this is not a skill unique to carrier ops.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 16:40
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Originally Posted by oceancrosser
According to some news, the crew swam ashore. With the airplane sitting in the bottom why not wait for a boat? Or perhaps no dinghy on a Navy plane?
Perhaps the crew was seizing the moment to knock out the 500 yd swim portion of the navy physical readiness test. Making lemonade from lemons? Hopefully someone was running a stopwatch and remembered to also take care of the push-ups and planking (Oy!) upon reaching terra firma.

Regarding the urgency to complete the mission by sticking the landing at PHNG in adverse conditions (low viz, tail wind, contaminated runway), just around the corner from PHNG is PHNL with long runways, lots of IAP options, and full military aircraft support at Hickam.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 17:12
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Originally Posted by BFSGrad

Regarding the urgency to complete the mission by sticking the landing at PHNG in adverse conditions (low viz, tail wind, contaminated runway), just around the corner from PHNG is PHNL with long runways, lots of IAP options, and full military aircraft support at Hickam.
There used to be quite a nice setup at Barbers Point as well
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 17:40
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Yes, no room for ifr approach due to terrain. Monday was a rainy trade wind day.
Ironically two airports about a dozen miles away would have worked well. One of them a former base for the P-3 which was the previous sub hunter.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 18:55
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Originally Posted by pax britanica
Isnt this just another case of a 737-8 running out of runway in the wet with a tailwind. They seem to do it regularly but there are a lot of them so that probably raises the profile
You are correct, and it seems only the 737-800 that has this overrun record, not any of the other 737 models. Someone can add up the number of runway overruns they have had in the last say 20 years, and compare that with the A320 over the same period. Because it's not just that there are lots of them, there are lots of other types as well.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 21:45
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Originally Posted by WHBM
You are correct, and it seems only the 737-800 that has this overrun record, not any of the other 737 models.
I can't say I'm too surprised that the -800 figures prominently in the 737 stats, given that there are significantly more of those in service than all the other variants put together.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 00:22
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Environmentalist are worried about jet fuel and antifreeze leaks. Antifreeze? A couple of litres of window washing fluid?
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 00:40
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Originally Posted by Two's in
In fairness, he does have a lot of years of history surrounding the primary causes of runway overruns on his side...
Probably an unwelcome introduction of truth to the discussion.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 01:58
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Originally Posted by WHBM
You are correct, and it seems only the 737-800 that has this overrun record, not any of the other 737 models. Someone can add up the number of runway overruns they have had in the last say 20 years, and compare that with the A320 over the same period. Because it's not just that there are lots of them, there are lots of other types as well.

Hummmm....a lil bit suspicious indeed...

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