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Air Canada A321, American B737 At Sarasota Feb 16

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Air Canada A321, American B737 At Sarasota Feb 16

Old 7th Mar 2023, 01:54
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Air Canada A321, American B737 At Sarasota Feb 16

Not sure if this is worthy of a new thread, but the NTSB did post. (Moderators are free to move/edit this post and change the thread title.)

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Old 7th Mar 2023, 19:17
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Simon posted some details. Quote:

"Incident: American B738 and Canada A321 at Sarasota on Feb 16th 2023, loss of separation on runway

By Simon Hradecky, created Tuesday, Mar 7th 2023 17:44Z, last updated Tuesday, Mar 7th 2023 17:49Z

An American Airlines Boeing 737-800, registration N976NN performing flight AA-2172 from Charlotte,NC to Sarasota,FL (USA), was on a visual final approach to runway 14 and was cleared to land on runway 14.

About 3 minutes later an Air Canada Airbus A321-200, registration C-FJQH performing flight AC-1633 from Sarasota,FL (USA) to Toronto,ON (Canada), reported ready for the departure and was cleared for takeoff, however, it appears that transmission of the takeoff clearance was stepped on by another aircraft. The crew queried tower about 30 seconds later whether they had understood correctly they were cleared for takeoff, tower affirmed, the crew thus proceeded for takeoff.

The crew of the American B738 advised about another minute later they were going around initiating a go around from very low height (about 150 feet AGL) about 0.3nm before the (displaced) runway threshold and began to immediately turn right onto downwind. The aircraft climbed to 3000 feet, positioned for another approach and landed safely on runway 14 about 8 minutes later.

The Air Canada Airbus continued takeoff, climbed out and continued to Toronto for a safe landing without further incident."

additional info in full post

Incident: American B738 and Canada A321 at Sarasota on Feb 16th 2023, loss of separation on runway
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 20:26
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ADS-B data shows a somewhat different picture than the AvHerald summary.

AA2172 reaches a minimum altitude of 45 ft on the RW14 centerline between taxiways A2 and A3 and initiates a right turn off of centerline just past A7.

At time stamp 01:58:48Z, ROU1633 is on the RW14 centerline at the departure end at an altitude of 495 ft. At the same time stamp, AA2172 is on the RW14 centerline just past B at an altitude of 420 ft. At that point, AA2172 is about 4,000 ft in trail of ROU1633. Separation increases from that point forward as AA initiates the right turn and ROU continues runway heading for another 6 nm.

Above referenced altitudes are ADS-B baro corrected for actual pressure.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 21:33
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Originally Posted by avherald
The crew of the American B738 advised about another minute later they were going around initiating a go around from very low height (about 150 feet AGL) about 0.3nm before the (displaced) runway threshold and began to immediately turn right onto downwind.
maybe they started offsetting to the right, but within about 10 seconds after their G/A call, they were also instructed by TWR to turn right heading 270.

LiveATC TWR recording has no info on the reason for the go around (nor any remarks/questions by either party). After handover, DEPT requested the reason for the G/A, and AA2172's reply was "That guy was still on the runway"

For the rest, don't think I can add much more to BFSGrad's post, but as I already made some screenshots, I can as well include them here (altitudes given are ADS-B output, so NOT corrected with QNH):
FR24 data is missing all of ROU1633's ground track, first data record is shown here just after rotation
both in the climb out, with some 3/4mile lateral separation
further climb out track


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Old 7th Mar 2023, 22:42
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Originally Posted by DIBO
For the rest, don't think I can add much more to BFSGrad's post, but as I already made some screenshots, I can as well include them here (altitudes given are ADS-B output, so NOT corrected with QNH)
Add about 160' for height AMSL, minus 30' for AAL. Heights shown as 0 on FR24 may not necessarily be on the ground..
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 00:52
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Heights shown as 0 on FR24 may not necessarily be on the ground..
Indeed, therefore it would have been useful in the FR24 downloads, for the Altitude column to better reflect the ADS-B 'Ground Bit Setting', by substituting the 0 with a blank or 'GND'.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 18:02
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The aircraft were about 3,100 feet (945 meters) apart when the American Airlines jet began its climb-out, the FAA said. (Reuters)
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 00:32
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Old 16th Mar 2023, 00:52
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Originally Posted by Seat4A
Thanks for the heads-up - any site that claims it can reliably correlate ATC scanner recordings with ADS-B data is best avoided ...
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 01:15
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NTSB Prelim Report

Noted from NTSB tweet:

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Old 17th Mar 2023, 12:55
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Was that 8pm local? Visual but in the dark?
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 13:01
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Originally Posted by waito
Was that 8pm local? Visual but in the dark?
9PM local : fromn the first page of the NTSB preliminary report :On February 16, 2023, about 2059 eastern standard time,etc..
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