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Close Call at Boston Logan

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Close Call at Boston Logan

Old 28th Feb 2023, 18:12
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Close Call at Boston Logan

Screen image of FAA statement included in thread conversation

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Old 28th Feb 2023, 19:04
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FR24 datarecords captured at exactly the same moment (2023-02-27T23:54:57Z):
(JetBlue 206 going around 4R / Hop-A-Jet 280 taking-off rwy 9)



Last edited by DIBO; 28th Feb 2023 at 19:08. Reason: added context info
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 19:08
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Wow... Here we go again 👌
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 22:08
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Originally Posted by DIBO
FR24 datarecords captured at exactly the same moment (2023-02-27T23:54:57Z):
(JetBlue 206 going around 4R / Hop-A-Jet 280 taking-off rwy 9)
Yes, the JBU Embraer appears to have crossed the 04R/09 intersection about 4 seconds after the Learjet had crossed it.
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 22:19
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Tough to armchair this incident due to limitations of LiveATC. Available audio feed is both KBOS tower frequencies combined in a single audio file. Not all transmissions are heard. When LC instructs Learjet to cross 4L at E and turn right on M, only a partial read back is heard. When LC instructs Learjet to monitor 132.22, no read back is heard. No read back is heard from LC instruction to Learjet to LUAW on 9, with that transmission excluding the Learjet identifier from LC.

Listening to the extended audio file, radio comms/discipline was very good with both pilots and ATC identifying and correcting occasional errors from the other. Given that exhibited discipline, I suspect the Learjet responded to all LC instructions with the appropriate read back, but not captured on audio file due to limitations of LiveATC monitor. Once off the ground, Learjet comms are loud and clear.

VASAviation creator noted in comments of his video that he followed the Learjet for several frequency changes after departure and never heard ATC issue a possible pilot deviation.

One other observation: after JBU gets handed off from tower, TRACON asks for reason for go-around, and pilot responds "tower instructed" (rather than pilot-initiated).
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 23:18
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The area of KBOS where this took place was once emphasized on KBOS charts as a critical hot spot as I recall from years ago, but I am not seeing that on current charts.

https://images.app.goo.gl/c6gb3WzBHsDmSheY8
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Old 28th Feb 2023, 23:38
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Originally Posted by BFSGrad
Tough to armchair this incident due to limitations of LiveATC.
Thank goodness for that
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 00:31
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Lowest recorded altitude was 75 feet. There are reports that the wheels touched the runway.


https://flightaware.com/live/flight/.../KBOS/tracklog
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 01:50
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Yes, the JBU Embraer appears to have crossed the 04R/09 intersection about 4 seconds after the Learjet had crossed it.
4 seconds... 240mtrs approx for the lear from the nose of the E-Jet... close enough to read the rego. 4 seconds later, the Lear is about... 120m to the right of the E-Jets path... The E-Jets captains comment about the G/A due ATC is rather understated... The Lear has some explaining to do at some point to his local FSDO, about rolling without a clearance, and not reading back an apparently non-existent clearance...

Eyes n' ears open, seems to be a busy season for oddities.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 07:35
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@ DIBO : could you again put the audio link ? Thanks . This one sounds a bit like Teneriffe,i.e. minset to go before actual take off clearance was issued. We all thought the " lineup and wait " phraseology introduced after that would eliminate this, proved wrong again apparently.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 08:13
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Originally Posted by Lake1952
Lowest recorded altitude was 75 feet. There are reports that the wheels touched the runway.
FR24 has one 0 ft plot point (+/- 12.5'), so quite likely that the wheels touched.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 15:55
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
@ DIBO : could you again put the audio link ? Thanks . This one sounds a bit like Teneriffe,i.e. minset to go before actual take off clearance was issued. We all thought the " lineup and wait " phraseology introduced after that would eliminate this, proved wrong again apparently.
VASAviation has this one posted

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Old 1st Mar 2023, 16:05
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Can someone explain to me why nothing was said to HPJ280?
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 16:54
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Originally Posted by GarageYears
Can someone explain to me why nothing was said to HPJ280?
Assume you’re referring to a possible pilot deviation notification by ATC? While the VASAviation video guy stated he never heard such an ATC notification, another comment in his video stated that HPJ280 was notified about 35 minutes after departure. 7110.65 states that possible pilot deviation notifications are made “workload permitting.” Doesn’t really matter as the FAA has stated via media that HPJ280 departed with no takeoff clearance. I have no doubt that upon arrival at FXE, the pilots were well aware of their regulatory peril.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 17:20
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Originally Posted by GarageYears
Can someone explain to me why nothing was said to HPJ280?
Probably better to do so in cruise when things are more relaxed. Or after landing and taxi in.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 17:29
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@Seat4A : Thanks for the audio, Looks like it is partial, the intial call on TWR freq and the readback of the Learjet are missing for instance.
Originally Posted by GarageYears
Can someone explain to me why nothing was said to HPJ280?
Most probably because the TWR sup wanted to listen to the recording to make sure what was said before making a decision . Quite normal and professional There was no real hurry to do anything right after the. incident .
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 17:32
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Originally Posted by BFSGrad
Assume you’re referring to a possible pilot deviation notification by ATC? While the VASAviation video guy stated he never heard such an ATC notification, another comment in his video stated that HPJ280 was notified about 35 minutes after departure. 7110.65 states that possible pilot deviation notifications are made “workload permitting.” Doesn’t really matter as the FAA has stated via media that HPJ280 departed with no takeoff clearance. I have no doubt that upon arrival at FXE, the pilots were well aware of their regulatory peril.
Thanks for that - I wasn't sure how that was supposed to work.
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Old 1st Mar 2023, 18:26
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
... Looks like it is partial, the intial call on TWR freq and the readback of the Learjet are missing for instance.
Freq. handover was done twice with "monitor TWR", so both on TWR West and later TWR East the initial call was made by TWR and recorded on the audio. With TWR West the Hop-A-Jet replies were hardly readable, with TWR East no replies were audibly recorded. Post #5 by BFSGrad summarized the audio content perfectly, so I threw away my cleaned up audio. But here it's available, not that it has any added value compared to the VASAviation video.
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Old 2nd Mar 2023, 01:13
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Adding

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Old 2nd Mar 2023, 01:32
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Welll...with this recent amount of "Near" & "Close" last times, i really pray one of these next days we won't see such words changing to something worst...
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