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AA 106 @ JFK (13 Jan 23)

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AA 106 @ JFK (13 Jan 23)

Old 15th Jan 2023, 01:07
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AA 106 @ JFK (13 Jan 23)

Apparent near-miss at JFK last night crossing active runway in front of a departing Delta.

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Old 15th Jan 2023, 01:23
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Based on FR24 replay, could have been this:

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Old 15th Jan 2023, 06:18
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 20:54
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Originally Posted by wd-15717 View Post
Apparent near-miss at JFK last night crossing active runway in front of a departing Delta.
Looks like AAL106 crossed 4L at Juliet, about 4000' down the runway. Seems like a very close call.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 23:32
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I don't know JFK, but, don't they have red stop bar lights at all runways?
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 23:47
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Originally Posted by dixi188 View Post
I don't know JFK, but, don't they have red stop bar lights at all runways?
This FAA diagram shows REL at J crossing 4L.

KJFK RSL
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 02:35
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This has surprisingly few comments. It could have easily been an award winning disaster.

Listening to the voices of the two pilots and two controllers was enlightening. It will be interesting to see the experience levels of some of the players if a report IS made public..
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 07:50
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ATC audio:


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Old 16th Jan 2023, 08:28
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NTSB investigation launched.

Comparison of (A) presumably intended ground track (as taken by many of the preceding 4L departures) and (B) actual ground track:

(A) follows ring taxiway Bravo; as Bravo starts to curve round to the northeast, takes the 3rd right exit and crosses the runway ahead

(B) follows ring taxiway Bravo; as Bravo starts to curve round to the northeast, takes the 4th right exit and crosses the runway ahead


A:



B:
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 09:25
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My thoughts

This was a threat waiting to be realized. Miss a right turn, take the next one, sounds pretty harmless in most situations, but with the layout at JFK could have ended in serious disaster. Something needs to be done about the taxiway configuration at that area of the airport and/or standard taxi routings. I suspect something will be done to the latter.

What was the status of the automated runway warning status lights? It seems likely that the departing aircraft was far enough along that they didn't see it. What about the aircraft that crossed?

I didn't really like the way the ATC informed the crew to stop. I know that ATC are trained not to be alarmed, but being a bit firmer and using words like 'stop', 'abort', 'reject' would be more appropriate in my opinion, and would do a better job of communicating the urgent need to the the crew of the need to reject.
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 11:55
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Who says Friday 13th is unlucky?

Mog
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 11:56
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So the Delta went back to the gate. Passengers and crew deplaned and were put up in hotels overnight.

The American 106 continued to London.

Interesting decision to continue. Knowing you have made a serious error that caused another aircraft to reject its takeoff and was not just a runway incursion but a near collision must have had quite an effect on the crew. It would have been hard to put that behind them and concentrate on doing a good job of getting the aeroplane to London without going over and over things in their minds. Quite a distraction knowing you are going to be the subject of an investigation and it would not have been a happy 6 hour flight.

They had a telephone conversation with tower after the event but I wonder if they had a conversation with AA too or if they just decided to continue the flight?

The American was told to cross runway 31L but instead crossed runway 04L.
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 12:23
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Ground radar?
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 13:16
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given a <$200 consumer phone can do over-the-ground gps routing at driving speeds there is no excuse for the same technology not to be fitted to all passenger aircraft
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 13:21
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It was hot but well handled by ATC, regarding the Phraseology " cancel take off plans" repeated 3 times sounds like a (new?) FAA procedure and yes, is not ICAO phraseology, but so many things are not ICAO in US phraseology , but it worked well.
If the red bars were on (they should have been ) then the AA dif not only violate its clearance but also crossed red bars.. ( if they were on ) .The investigation report will be interesting to read .
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 13:43
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Originally Posted by draglift View Post
So the Delta went back to the gate. Passengers and crew deplaned and were put up in hotels overnight.

The American 106 continued to London.

Interesting decision to continue. Knowing you have made a serious error that caused another aircraft to reject its takeoff and was not just a runway incursion but a near collision must have had quite an effect on the crew. It would have been hard to put that behind them and concentrate on doing a good job of getting the aeroplane to London without going over and over things in their minds. Quite a distraction knowing you are going to be the subject of an investigation and it would not have been a happy 6 hour flight.

They had a telephone conversation with tower after the event but I wonder if they had a conversation with AA too or if they just decided to continue the flight?

The American was told to cross runway 31L but instead crossed runway 04L.
Wouldn’t the AA106 crew normally have been suspended pending investigation following an apparent error of this magnitude?
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 13:53
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There may be red stop bars, but my experience at JFK over the last 13 years is that they are not lit. However they also have flashing amber lights all the way across the rwy entrances/crossing points which are hard to miss.
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 15:04
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
There may be red stop bars, but my experience at JFK over the last 13 years is that they are not lit. However they also have flashing amber lights all the way across the rwy entrances/crossing points which are hard to miss.
They may be hard to miss but they don't stop you. If JFK is not using lights correctly then it is a big issue (Milan) and shows how useful the "follow the greens" are at Heathrow.
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 15:19
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
There may be red stop bars, but my experience at JFK over the last 13 years is that they are not lit. However they also have flashing amber lights all the way across the rwy entrances/crossing points which are hard to miss.
Yes, but the AA crew thought they were cleared to cross the runway, so they would be expecting the flashing lights. The AA crew got disorientated with where they were on the field.

As for why they continued on to London, I wonder what was said during the dressing down phone call to tower? Was it clearly communicated that it was a serious near collision, or just a failure to follow taxi instructions? There is no way for pilot flying to be switched out I wonder (In order to continue the flight to London)? Even switched with possible cruise or training pilot on board already?

SPECULATION: It seems the female crewmember was running radio calls while male was taxiing. Then after the "please call the towner" ATC command, the male crew member comes on, kind of wound up, reading back what he thought they were cleared for (his tone is kind of implying an ATC read out error). I wonder who was sitting in the right seat and possibly saw the aircraft taking off right at them as they crossed the runway?
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 15:27
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Originally Posted by Airmann View Post
I didn't really like the way the ATC informed the crew to stop. I know that ATC are trained not to be alarmed, but being a bit firmer and using words like 'stop', 'abort', 'reject' would be more appropriate in my opinion, and would do a better job of communicating the urgent need to the the crew of the need to reject.
"Cancel Takeoff Clearance" is verbatim phraseology from 7110.65.
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