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Precision Air crash, Lake Victoria

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Precision Air crash, Lake Victoria

Old 8th Nov 2022, 09:00
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A320LGW
they were unable to open the emergency escape hatch above. It does open inwards though.
The AR42 hatch opens inwards ? if so does it has an hinge on one side. ? If not you indeed could be knocked out due of the water pressure. when trying to open it
. A terrible story .
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 09:14
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Originally Posted by A320LGW
I don't believe it is. The jumpseat oxygen pipe however is built longer so the jumpseater can go and tackle fire in the fwd hold if need be.
I don't recall there being any difference between the O2 masks across the flight deck
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 09:19
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Flight deck oxygen masks aren’t meant for use underwater but the 100% oxygen setting may have given something breathable for a while.

Storm cells suggest the possibility of a microburst. A sudden change to the wind component or being right underneath the descending air could easily exceed the aircraft’s performance available to recover.

A decision to hold or divert could have changed this tragic accident into a slight delay or minor inconvenience.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 10:03
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
That sounds a likely tale...

So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar....
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 12:43
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Originally Posted by Trim Stab
That sounds a likely tale...

So did the fisherman happen to have diving goggles with him? Or has he some magical ability to see clearly underwater without them, and special eyes that can also see in the murky muddy waters of Lake Viictoria? And as for smashing an aircraft door open with a rowing oar....
The fuselage was only a few feet under water, so it's entirely possible that the fisherman in question could get close enough to the flight deck windows to be able to see and communicate with the occupants.

As for the reported role of the locals in rescuing passengers, the fact that 24 lived, and the interviews with the survivors both seem perfectly consistent with that.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 14:04
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@ Trim Stab; There are certain fishermen who use goggles to dive for fish or crustaceans. Could have been some of those guys.

Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 16:49
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Very depressing though that in 2022, we are still seeing such apparently basic accidents happening to aircraft. Given the ever increasing global flying experience, CRM etc., and the long list of tests and hurdles one has to jump through - on top of one's flying licence - it seems very odd to me.
TIA . Operating in Tropical and equatorial weather , weak regulators combined with a culture rewarding the "braves" just to take only a few factors.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do.
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 02:56
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
TIA . Operating in Tropical and equatorial weather , weak regulators combined with a culture rewarding the "braves" just to take only a few factors.
. Africa is not operating in the same game field as most of us do.
this….also, “management” in Africa is sorely lacking. Punishment for adhering to safety standards is standard. I speak from experience. I can totally see some useless official with a road cone for a megaphone, “taking charge” and stopping rescue efforts.
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 09:31
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Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 13:26
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Originally Posted by Uplinker
Sorry, TIA? I don't know that acronym.
"This Is Africa" . Sorry old bush pilots talk, shows my age ....
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 14:46
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
"This Is Africa" . Sorry old bush pilots talk, shows my age ....
AIC - Also In Canada
Air transportation safety investigation A19C0145 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada (bst-tsb.gc.ca)
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 16:31
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Priceless thanks. Did not know. this indeed could have been in Africa. but the BIG difference between TIA and AIC is the last paragraph of the report :
Regulatory surveillance is also on the TSB Watchlist and will remain on it until TC demonstrates through surveillance activity assessments that the new surveillance methodology is identifying non-compliances, and that TC is ensuring that a company returns to compliance in a timely fashion and is able to manage the safety of its operations. Following the occurrence, North Star Air implemented a flight operations quality assurance program. Additionally, in December 2020, TC conducted a PI focused on the evaluation and effectiveness of the long-term corrective action plan related to the flight operations findings from the December 2019 PI. TC concluded that the long-term corrective actions taken by North Star Air were effective.
A strong regulator is sadly missing is most countries in Africa.
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Old 10th Nov 2022, 02:57
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AWA = Africa Wins Again
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Old 11th Nov 2022, 12:39
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If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
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Old 11th Nov 2022, 15:13
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
It was the main entry door on the United Express aircraft that jammed (hence all the pax also perished).

Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door.
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Old 11th Nov 2022, 18:38
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
If indeed the flight deck door was locked, could a change in flight rules be made for all aircraft that on minimums pilot monitoring flicks the door switch to open? Hardly going to get hi-jacked with 10 seconds to go are we? Even in our Cessnas and Pipers during pfl’s we unlatched the doors in case they got jammed. Could save a crew member’s life if the door got jammed in a crash landing. Happened to a United Express aircraft that collided on the runway intersection with a beech king air. Crew survived and were waving to rescue team. Door was jammed shut and the pilot and her 1st officer perished in the flames.
this is the most unrealistic suggestion this year. In addition to flying the plane, the crew now have to unlock an armored door that’s designed to prevent cockpit intrusion. Not only disarm, but crack it open? While potentially operating to minimums in hard ifr. Will the door opener get out of their seat to accomplish this task?
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Old 12th Nov 2022, 09:35
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
It was the main entry door on the United Express aircraft that jammed (hence all the pax also perished).
Nothing to do with a locked flight deck door.
Indeed, after a collision at KUIN runways intersection between a landing Beechcraft 1900C, N87GL (United Express) and a departing King Air A90, N1127D.

The main entry/exit airstair door of the 1900C could not be opened, not by the people inside and not by the first responders outside.

Unanswered is why the overwing emergency exit on the LH side was not opened from outside by the first responders; or if they even tried or thought of the overwing hatch, that can be opened from the outside by pulling a flush mounted handle (the RH side of the 1900C was engulfed in fire).

https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19961119-0
Attached Files
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Old 12th Nov 2022, 12:05
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius
If indeed the flight deck door was locked
Not sure the cockpit door of the ATR42-500, 5H-PWF had anything to do with this tragic accident into Lake Victoria at HTBU.

FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public.

In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.).

Last edited by avionimc; 12th Nov 2022 at 12:20.
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Old 12th Nov 2022, 17:37
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Originally Posted by avionimc
Not sure the cockpit door of the ATR42-500, 5H-PWF had anything to do with this tragic accident into Lake Victoria at HTBU.

FWIW, bulletproof/armored/secured/locked cockpit doors are not necessarily safe(r). Possibly just another mandate to reassure the traveling public.

In fact these locked doors caused a series of accidents and incidents (Germanwings 4U-9525, Mozambique Airlines TM-470, Air India Express IX-212, Air India AI-403, Air New Zealand NZ-176, etc.).
I agree, I think we need to re-examine whether over-all these intrusion proof doors have saved lives versus not having them. I think not. IT has been worse to have them.

I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been.
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Old 13th Nov 2022, 08:38
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
I agree, I think we need to re-examine whether over-all these intrusion proof doors have saved lives versus not having them. I think not. IT has been worse to have them.

I would bang this gong as well as the one that most all luggage should go into the hold, except for perhaps a small handbag and that all overhead bins should be tiny and be locked in flight and has to be unlocked manually by the crew to avoid people worrying about their things if and when there is an evacuation of the aircraft. It has been shown time and again that people will retrieve or attempt tor retrieve their luggage no matter what they are told in an evac and this does impact the speed of the evac. Someone getting their bags can and probably did cause death for others who were in the aircraft longer than they should have been.
That’ll make life very difficult for commuting pilots where are your statistics for these deaths?
Might I humbly suggest you bang the FTL drum to reduce deaths?
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