Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 20th Jun 2019, 04:43
  #1881 (permalink)  
Just a numbered other
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Earth
Age: 67
Posts: 1,153
YRP

go back through this thread. All will become clear.
Arkroyal is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 06:06
  #1882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,190
The headline article in the Times seems to contradict itself. In the 4th para it describes Henderson as a "private pilot", but in the 10th it describes him as an "experienced commercial pilot". Is this saying he is a lapsed CPL who has dropped down to PPL, or is it just wrong?

PDR
PDR1 is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 08:04
  #1883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: the dark side
Posts: 924
I think it’s as simple as he’s a private pilot, with a current commercial rating. This means he can fly for hire and reward when contracted/required to do so, eg ferrying aircraft.
jumpseater is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 08:25
  #1884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 863
If you search for Dave Henderson pilot you will find a BBC piece "My life as a ferry pilot"

Note the aircraft. The opening sentence says it all.

Sorry, link doesn't seem to work.
DC3 Dave is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 09:51
  #1885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,190
Is it This Piece ?

PDR
PDR1 is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 10:19
  #1886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Is it This Piece ?

PDR
It is, thank-you. Sorry, I realise now it was already on the thread.
DC3 Dave is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 12:53
  #1887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,216
I believe it’s because he has only an FAA Commercial and an EASA PPL(A).
S-Works is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 16:27
  #1888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 89
I suspect the insurance needs "someone" to blame, so the authorities are playing along with the "pin the tail on the donkey" part of the fun, and Mr Henderson has ended up with the tail ...

I doubt it will go anywhere ... they'll try someone else and then give up ..
paperHanger is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 16:45
  #1889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,295
Originally Posted by paperHanger View Post
I suspect the insurance needs "someone" to blame, so the authorities are playing along with the "pin the tail on the donkey" part of the fun, and Mr Henderson has ended up with the tail ...

I doubt it will go anywhere ... they'll try someone else and then give up ..
I disagree, Henderson got the "job" from Mckay it seems. And Henderson elected to send a PPL pilot to do a commercial job.
It does appear D.I was being paid per hour to fly plus all expenses. The question is who contacted D.I and told him to do this "job", that he was not qualified to do? Who supplied him the airplane to fly?
I am guessing D.H got the job to make sure Sala would be in Cardiff on time.

The BBC video shows him with the crashed airplane, so there is some connection there for sure. McKay has planted the blame with D.H it seems, although the McKays are probably the ones who put "commercial" pressure on the flight to be completed on time, to make sure Sala would be on time in Cardiff.
But the one who should have said stop, seems to be D.H, as he would have known D.I was not a Commercial Pilot, did not have an Instrument rating.
2unlimited is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 19:02
  #1890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hotel Sheets, Downtown Plunketville
Age: 72
Posts: 687
Arrest by police does not at this stage mean any more than gathering of evidence from any suspect who may have involvement in a criminal act. It is at the charging stage that more detailed information will be made public. All that is known so far is that the Mckay duo and Henderson have been mentioned in various press articles as candidates for involvement. For all we know the owners of the aircraft may also be on the list of likely candidates for a tete a tete under the lamp.
I wonder if anyone have seen or heard of cops sniffing around asking questions around various airfields and hangars, calling to see log books, tech records and airfield movement records.
Chronus is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 19:26
  #1891 (permalink)  
YRP
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Arkroyal View Post
YRP

go back through this thread. All will become clear.
Thanks, got it now. The post was a separate thread that was merged into this one after my reply, so I didn't have the history.
YRP is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 09:40
  #1892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 50
Posts: 1,336
Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
Arrest by police does not at this stage mean any more than gathering of evidence from any suspect who may have involvement in a criminal act. It is at the charging stage that more detailed information will be made public. All that is known so far is that the Mckay duo and Henderson have been mentioned in various press articles as candidates for involvement. For all we know the owners of the aircraft may also be on the list of likely candidates for a tete a tete under the lamp.
I wonder if anyone have seen or heard of cops sniffing around asking questions around various airfields and hangars, calling to see log books, tech records and airfield movement records.
I wonder why they felt the need to arrest him rather than interview him on a voluntary basis though?
Tashengurt is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 10:18
  #1893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,190
I gather the usual reason for that is where someone declines to volunteer to help the police with their enquiries, but obviously I have no idea whether that is the case here.

PDR
PDR1 is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 12:02
  #1894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,085
"He told me he had a commercial licence and i had no reason to disbelieve him given the other work he was lnown to be doing...obviously as PIC it would then be his duty to ensure the safe conduct of the flight and i gave him no pressure to do otherwise.."

Pittsextra is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 15:24
  #1895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,022
Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
I wonder why they felt the need to arrest him rather than interview him on a voluntary basis though?
There are two reasons for inviting an individual to a voluntary rather than a "standard" interview:

a. The criteria for arrest may not have been met, i.e. the police believe that you may have been involved in the matter under investigation but have insufficient evidence to carry out an arrest.
b. They are aware that the investigation may be lenghty; almost certainly so in this case: and wish to avoid the obligations placed upon them when dealing with persons under arrest.

If it was considered on the evidence available that any charges were likely to arise from contraventions of the ANO then it is quite likely that the voluntary route would have been adopted. This would have been infuenced by the fact the that investigating body would have been the CAA and all interviews carried out by them are voluntary, although under caution and recorded.

It would be reasonable to assume that given the facts available to them the police decided to investigate the matter as manslaughter and thus provided that the evidential test was met made and an arrest before proceeding with a standard interview. It is possible that the arrest may have occurred after an initial voluntary attendance at the police station and following a voluntary interview. However if that was the case I would have expected to see some reference to the process in the police statement.

None of the above implies guilt on the part of the arrested party. Evidence to justify arrest is of a different standard to that required to lay charges. The police may arrest to further efficient investigation, gather and preserve evidence, which they will have to disclose in the event of charges being laid. We do not know how far down the inestigative route they have gone.

YS
Yellow Sun is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 16:16
  #1896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 50
Posts: 1,336
Yellowsun, not entirely accurate I'm afraid.
The grounds to arrest need be no more than a suspicion an offence has been, or is about to be committed.
However, in order to arrest the Police have to satisfy themselves that there is a necessity.
That may be to prevent harm/ damage or loss,
prevent further offences, prevent interference with a witness etc, to prevent disappearance, to allow for a statutory power to be enforced ie samples being taken or to allow for prompt and effective investigation.
Tashengurt is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 18:49
  #1897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Pittsextra View Post
"He told me he had a commercial licence and i had no reason to disbelieve him given the other work he was lnown to be doing...obviously as PIC it would then be his duty to ensure the safe conduct of the flight and i gave him no pressure to do otherwise.."
That would be a good basis for defence, maybe even "he showed me a commercial license that was in his name and valid, with a suitable medical, I suspect it was lost in the crash" ... part of the trouble with this occupation is that a lot of the records are paper, and must be carried on the flight .. resulting in loss when everything goes wrong.



paperHanger is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 19:10
  #1898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,085
The thing is maybe its true. I know many like to adopt positions on the moral high ground but just maybe he really was assured the pilot was qualified and that pilot suggested he would actually pay towards the flight.
Pittsextra is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 19:42
  #1899 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hotel Sheets, Downtown Plunketville
Age: 72
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
I wonder why they felt the need to arrest him rather than interview him on a voluntary basis though?
Voluntary basis : Assisting police with their inquiries.
Arrest : Formal process to collect evidence which may lead to charge, trial and use of evidence .

The person arrested may have been previously been interviewed informally, ie on a voluntary basis.

Nevertheless the law is most concerned that there should be reasonable grounds for arrest, as the person is detained in police custody for a defined period of time and therefore loss of liberty is involved. Arrest and custody by police is never a pleasant experience, especially for those who have no previous experience of it.
Chronus is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2019, 21:00
  #1900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 50
Posts: 1,336
Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
Voluntary basis : Assisting police with their inquiries.
Arrest : Formal process to collect evidence which may lead to charge, trial and use of evidence .

The person arrested may have been previously been interviewed informally, ie on a voluntary basis.

Nevertheless the law is most concerned that there should be reasonable grounds for arrest, as the person is detained in police custody for a defined period of time and therefore loss of liberty is involved. Arrest and custody by police is never a pleasant experience, especially for those who have no previous experience of it.
Voluntary interviews are increasingly used to deal with suspects. 'Helping police with their enquiries' is a nice phrase to avoid offending anyone. It's pretty meaningless.


Tashengurt is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.