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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 28th Feb 2019, 15:30
  #1541 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by VerdunLuck View Post
.

A further point that I cannot quite get my head around is the idea that he got a PPL in 2014 (I have been told) and somehow accumulated 3700 hours dropping parachutists. That is over 900 hours a year; hard work in any environment and surely impossible parra dropping (and when did he do his pipe fitting job?). ..... Perhaps a zero got added at some point?
I cannot imagine someone giving the keys of a Malibu to a 59 years old having made his PPL 5 years ago with only 370 hours to make an international flight across the channel.. I think if there is a typo somewhere is on the PPL date ..

and as to the discussion on his Night qualification ,something I do not get, on a PPL that qualification is written ( printed) on the EASA licence , so the CAA must have the entry on their data base. If as suggested here he did not have it, then his flight was from the start operated unlawfully and most probably the insurance will not cover the aircraft as well.

Last edited by ATC Watcher; 28th Feb 2019 at 15:40.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 15:33
  #1542 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
I have read newspaper reports that suggest the agent contacted David Henderson but can you prove he in turn assigned David Ibbotson?
Remember:
McKay, who helped broker Salaís £15 million transfer to Cardiff City from Nantes, confirmed last month he organised the flight in question and that his usual pilot, Dave Henderson, had paid the landing fees and fuel.
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/prem...ala/ar-BBU7AMf

How do you explain that other than McKay contracted the job to Henderson, and Henderson sub-contracted the flying to Ibbotson?
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 16:27
  #1543 (permalink)  
 
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The definition of corporate manslaughter is quite clear.

Following R v. Prentice, a breach of duty amounts to 'gross negligence' when there is indifference to an obvious risk of injury to health; actual foresight of the risk coupled with the determination nevertheless to run it; appreciation of the risk coupled with an intention to avoid it but also coupled with such a high degree of negligence in the attempted avoidance as the jury consider justifies conviction, and inattention or failure to advert to a serious risk which goes "beyond inadvertence" in respect of an obvious and important matter which the defendant's duty demanded he should address.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 17:36
  #1544 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC news has just been running an interview with Mckay Senior re the organisation of the flight. Doesnít appear to be online yet to link to.

Watching it I get the impression the Ďlegalí heat is turned up to eleven.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 17:43
  #1545 (permalink)  
 
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Here it is ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47406109
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 17:57
  #1546 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
The definition of corporate manslaughter is quite clear.

There is no evidence that any companies are involved in this chain of events.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:08
  #1547 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst it always seemed highly unlikely I guess this is the final nail in the coffin of any cost-sharing argument.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:10
  #1548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
There is no evidence that any companies are involved in this chain of events.
Assuming the football agent is a UK based or registered company, even as a sole trader, I would have thought that may put them in the liability crosshairs for corporate responsibilities.

edit: It also occurs that the HSE may get involved. If itís a regular company practice to use Ďunlicensedí transport facilities for staff/customer transport and an accident occurs, a UK company could certainly face prosecution from the HSE.

Last edited by jumpseater; 28th Feb 2019 at 18:37.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:12
  #1549 (permalink)  
 
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However, Willie McKay said it was not a cost-sharing agreement as "Emi wasn't paying anything" and that he was going to pay "whatever Dave [Henderson] was going to charge".

Thatís really throwing Dave Henderson under the bus.

"I've been told on good authority he was a very good pilot so for people to vilify the pilot after a man's death is a disgrace. I don't hold anyone responsible because it's just a tragic accident."

If you pilot an aircraft under conditions for which you are not qualified that is not an accident, it is negligence however much lipstick you try to put on the pig.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:16
  #1550 (permalink)  
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Pity the Oscars were last week!

McKay senior and junior would be great contenders.

Having admitted and continuing to admit he arranged the flight, he now blames Cardiff City for letting him do it! Iím stunned.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 18:17
  #1551 (permalink)  
 
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So McKay says it was not a cost sharing flight implying it was commercial. With a PPL at the wheel. Whoever hired Mr Ibbotson (Mr Henderson?) will have a lot to answer for.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 19:29
  #1552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr Jekyll View Post
It's academic, but 370 hours doesn't seem particularly unreasonable either for a cross channel flight or a complex piston single.
He had nearly 4000hrs and had held a PPL for a very long time.......
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 20:18
  #1553 (permalink)  
 
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Flying Hours
Our thoughts on this discussion converge to focus on the pilot. Whether he was fit in every way to undertake this fateful flight.
Accepting he had accumulated the significant time of 3700hrs, and had done some aerial work such as para drops band glider tow, would it not be reasonable to suggest that his ambition may have been to work as a commercial pilot. That flying was more than a hobby or pass time. Why did he not at least get an instructor`s rating and take it one step further, why did he not get an IR to his PPL. Why did he not go for a CPL. Why were all these beyond his reach. Does it not also raise the question that he may have tried and maybe failed. Where do so many hours take one without a purpose. If one has very deep pockets, well all these do not come into question. But in this instance a gas fitter/engineer/plumber, with a poor financial score behind him, surely does not fall into that well heeled flying nut category. How much does 3700 hrs airtime cost. How did this unfortunate plumber could have afforded it, even if it was over a number of years. Flying has never been cheap. Unless you have a very deep pocket someone else must pay for the person sitting up at the front end of the machine. Who could those at the back be. I suppose that depends on how many good well heeled friends one may have.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 20:22
  #1554 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
Flying Hours
Our thoughts on this discussion converge to focus on the pilot. Whether he was fit in every way to undertake this fateful flight.
Accepting he had accumulated the significant time of 3700hrs, and had done some aerial work such as para drops band glider tow, would it not be reasonable to suggest that his ambition may have been to work as a commercial pilot. That flying was more than a hobby or pass time. Why did he not at least get an instructor`s rating and take it one step further, why did he not get an IR to his PPL. Why did he not go for a CPL. Why were all these beyond his reach. Does it not also raise the question that he may have tried and maybe failed. Where do so many hours take one without a purpose. If one has very deep pockets, well all these do not come into question. But in this instance a gas fitter/engineer/plumber, with a poor financial score behind him, surely does not fall into that well heeled flying nut category. How much does 3700 hrs airtime cost. How did this unfortunate plumber could have afforded it, even if it was over a number of years. Flying has never been cheap. Unless you have a very deep pocket someone else must pay for the person sitting up at the front end of the machine. Who could those at the back be. I suppose that depends on how many good well heeled friends one may have.
He was colourblind and therefore never able to get a CPL/IR. he loved to fly but could not afford it hence getting into parachute dropping and ultimately the arrangement that led to his demise.

Last edited by S-Works; 28th Feb 2019 at 20:40.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 20:26
  #1555 (permalink)  
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This is how Mr Henderson sells his business on Linkedin... My bold and underline...

Aviation Facilitator.

I have been operating as a ferry pilot for over 2 decades - SEP, MEP, SET and now run my own aviation consultancy.

Whether you are looking to
- significantly reduce your time spent travelling for business or leisure, while accessing remote/hard to reach locations
- recieve advice on the management of your own craft
- or acquire/purchase an aircraft/helicopter
I will be able to provide a number of highly cost efficient solutions
If you have a requirement to use General Aviation for any purpose, anywhere in the world, I can probably assist.
On top of this: Mr McKay is known in the industry to be ONLY price oriented when booking aircraft...
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 20:41
  #1556 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by S-Works View Post


He was colourblind and therefore never able to get a CPL/IR. I loved to fly but could not afford it hence getting into parachute dropping and ultimately the arrangement that led to his demise.

So does that not mean he was a victim of love. The most unfortunate that such love also took another victim who did not share his love. Is it not for good reason that a person who has the misfortune of suffering with such disability as colour blindness is barred from holding a professional licence. But there again as the old proverb goes, love has no boundaries.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 20:51
  #1557 (permalink)  
 
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"He had a Second Class medical with the only restriction being 'Must have available glasses for near vision.'
and he had a U.K. licence Class 2 medical with a restriction on specifically preventing flight at night"
I find this strange. His current medical was an EASA Class 2. The restrictions on it were what matter. It is surprising that colour blindness restrictions were lifted, but apparently they were. The UK licence medical would have been in the past, and replaced by the EASA one when it expired.
(I have flown on a PPL since 1987. I got a JAR number in 2006. I got both an EASA and a UK National PPL in 2018. I have always had a standard PPL medical - was it called Class 2 in 1987? My original FAA 61.75 had a night restriction, although I had a Night Rating, but that restriction was removed later.)
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 21:54
  #1558 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Maoraigh1 View Post
"He had a Second Class medical with the only restriction being 'Must have available glasses for near vision.'
and he had a U.K. licence Class 2 medical with a restriction on specifically preventing flight at nigh"
I find this strange. His current medical was an EASA Class 2. The restrictions on it were what matter. It is surprising that colour blindness restrictions were lifted, but apparently they were. The UK licence medical would have been in the past, and replaced by the EASA one when it expired.
(I have flown on a PPL since 1987. I got a JAR number in 2006. I got both an EASA and a UK National PPL in 2018. I have always had a standard PPL medical - was it called Class 2 in 1987? My original FAA 61.75 had a night restriction, although I had a Night Rating, but that restriction was removed later.)
What makes you think the restrictions were lifted? His EASA medical had a no night flying restriction on it.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 22:21
  #1559 (permalink)  
 
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From the Daily Heil

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...al-flight.html
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 22:37
  #1560 (permalink)  
 
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The player was always intending to return in the evening according to these whatsapp's
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