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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 23rd Jan 2019, 08:54
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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"My Life as a Ferry Pilot" BBC News 12 October 2015. In it DH talks of the challenge and of a number of ferry pilots he knew who never made it. He stands alongside N264DB and demonstrates its instruments. Eerie indeed....
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:12
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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zNewspapers are carrying details of one of the last messages from the passenger.

A transcript of the audio reads: "Hey brothers, how's everything going? Brother, I'm dead. I was in Nantes doing stuff, stuff, stuff and stuff... neverending, neverending, neverending, neverending. So anyway boys, I'm now on a plane which seems to be falling apart.

"And now I'm leaving for Cardiff, crazy that tomorrow I'll be training in the afternoon with my new teammates. We'll see what happens.

"So how are things with you brothers? All well?

"In an hour and a half if you haven't had news of me, I don't know if they'll send someone to look for me, because they're not going to find me. But, you know...

"Dad, I'm so scared."


Last edited by Mike Flynn; 23rd Jan 2019 at 09:28.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:21
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Oldpilot55 View Post
DH is not the pilot missing in this accident.
Another case of unhelpful media then. They are taking a long time to reveal the identity of the individual while the passenger's name was revealed almost as soon as the PA46 was reported missing.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:21
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gurnard View Post
"My Life as a Ferry Pilot" BBC News 12 October 2015. In it DH talks of the challenge and of a number of ferry pilots he knew who never made it. He stands alongside N264DB and demonstrates its instruments. Eerie indeed....
This seems the story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazi...-a-ferry-pilot
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:34
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sellbydate View Post
Wrong - title is to Southern Aircraft Consultancy but actual ownership is an individual in Mansfield
I think ETOPS is correct. "Ownership" of the aircraft is listed on the title and shows on the FAA website, whether that's one individual or more, a corporate entity or in this case a trust, due I suspect to it being an N reg based in the UK. Whatever arrangement the trust has with the individual who is in possession of the plane is irrelevant to the FAA. Not all N reg in the UK are owned by a trust however, if you are a US citizen you can hold title in your own name without the need for a trust.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:40
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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BBC reporting the football club are claiming the player booked the flight.

Cardiff City chairman Mehmet Dalman said players and fans were in a "state of shock".

"We are still praying," he said, adding that the club had received messages of support from around the world.

The "family of football has a way of coming together at times of tragedy," Mr Dalman told BBC Radio Wales' Good Morning Wales programme.

He also confirmed that the club had not booked the plane for the trip, adding that Sala had "made his own arrangements".
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-46966424
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:46
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Single engine, winter, snow forecast, night, possibly chartered from the low bidder. Prominent entertainer having the arrangements made for them.

Did we learn nothing from Buddy Holly ?
It would also appear that there's some "Catch-up" learning to be done on alternate air on single engine light aircraft as this one post amongst many: would seem to indicate :-

https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/5716-prolonged-flight-in-imc-on-alternate-air

N

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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 09:59
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Having been intimately involved with the signing of and life insurance exmainations for professional footballers for several years, I would be sadly surprised if all the insurance paperwork had gone through at this stage.

My experience is that this would be sorted once the player arrived for training.

Cardiff however could be much more "efficiently" run, and could possibly have some interim insurance to cover such eventualities.

My heartfelt sympathies to all involved.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:03
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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So who is leading on the Accident Investigation on this - nothing from the AAIB.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:08
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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BBC R4 news reporting that it's possible that the footballer and one other person might have climbed into a life-raft.

That's surely based on the Ferry Pilot clip where it's explained that on trans-Atlantic crossings there is a life-raft in the back to buy him up to 8hrs although he adds that he wears a neoprene immersion suit. But they wouldn't have been wearing neoprene on this occasion (would they?) so unless based on rescue services knowledge, the lift-raft possibility would be way off the mark, no?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:14
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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What sort of fatigue examination/testing would this sort of aircraft be subject to ?

N
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:21
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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I have no reason to doubt the statement from the club but something doesn’t add up here
1) There are reports that his mother said the aircraft was arranged by the club
2) He doesn’t seem to be at all comfortable with light aircraft so was he someone who would lease a plane and then go out and hire himself a pilot
3) At the very least the club had knowledge of his travel plans and I would have thought would have taken a close interest in the safety of their very expensive “asset”
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:21
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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It's a shame he didn't just book airline.

Most effectively AF/KLM through Amsterdam, as there is no reasonable connection at Paris. 1715 from Nantes arrive Ametsrdam 1900. 2120 from Amsterdam arrive Cardiff 2140. Seems little different to the light aircraft times.

Regarding the statement that the passenger had arranged the aircraft himself, I think we would be a bit surprised if he knew, personally, where to start with this. It will be notable to learn who/what else the owner had used this aircraft for over time.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:29
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chris Kebab View Post
So who is leading on the Accident Investigation on this - nothing from the AAIB.
not under their jurisdiction I believe.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:41
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Icing sounds very likely, but what about the possible effect upon instruments if the passenger was not using his phone in "flight safe mode"? Evidently he was busy sending messages indicating that he was uneasy.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:52
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bakerpictures View Post
BBC R4 news reporting that it's possible that the footballer and one other person might have climbed into a life-raft.

That's surely based on the Ferry Pilot clip where it's explained that on trans-Atlantic crossings there is a life-raft in the back to buy him up to 8hrs although he adds that he wears a neoprene immersion suit. But they wouldn't have been wearing neoprene on this occasion (would they?) so unless based on rescue services knowledge, the lift-raft possibility would be way off the mark, no?
Its all highly morally iffy.
You can do the "Immersion suit is my friend" routine if you're risking your own neck alone. . . . . .
But if you have POB ? . . . .
And if those POB(s) are paying ?
And if the carrier is not an official Air Taxi organisation and therefore won't be covered by the more stringent regulations ?
And you do it under a third and fourth countries flags ?
And if the passenger is not aware that these facts ?

And within no time at all, you get FAA equivalent levels of light aircraft accidents - opinion.


N

Last edited by NAROBS; 23rd Jan 2019 at 12:13.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 10:56
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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I have no reason to doubt the statement from the club but something doesn’t add up here
1) There are reports that his mother said the aircraft was arranged by the club
2) He doesn’t seem to be at all comfortable with light aircraft so was he someone who would lease a plane and then go out and hire himself a pilot
3) At the very least the club had knowledge of his travel plans and I would have thought would have taken a close interest in the safety of their very expensive “asset”
One person who hasn't been mentioned yet in all of this is his agent! I would have thought the chances he booked the flight are fairly high.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:04
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
To correct a few points : Guernsey is class D airspace at this altitude, so you need a transponder to enter, they normally do not give exceptions .. Any aircraft whatever its registration nationality that wants to fly in EASA airspace requires a mode S transponder . Mode A/C are no longer to be used,, In the USA you can still use the old A/C transponder but then you cannot enter, let alone be based in European airspace.
Is it 100% accurate? Last year I bought off the Jersey Aeroclub fleet, consisting of two fairly old, Mode C-only PA28s. Not only had they been operated daily in that Class D airspace chunk (mostly VFR) but when I ferried them out of Jersey, each time on an IFR flight plan, Mode C was never a problem.

Now, flying -DT through Belgium later was a completely different matter - I had to circumnavigate every bit of controlled airspace while there. I think it still varies by country, as I have recently flown -DT into and out of EPLL whose TMA is Class C.

Clear as mud.

Last edited by hegemon88; 23rd Jan 2019 at 11:04. Reason: Typo in the tag
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:23
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Right Way Up View Post
One person who hasn't been mentioned yet in all of this is his agent! I would have thought the chances he booked the flight are fairly high.
I know absolutely nothing about football but I do know that the agent is French. How would a football agent in France find an aircraft at Gamston then hire a pilot to fly it?
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 11:23
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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I spent a few years flying VFR around the Channel Islands, the weather can change very quickly and there are some very strong sea currents around Alderney, so even if they got into a life raft they would still be in real trouble. How sad for all involved.
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