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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 6th Feb 2019, 14:58
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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It seems to me that it is very difficult to get an FAA second-class medical certificate if you are colour blind and whatever UK ratings/licence were held, can I suggest the colour blindness is a red(?) herring?
The first of potentially many legal actions is threatened.

ĎIt is understood Nantes are threatening legal action if they do not receive a payment within 10 days. BBC have attempted to speak to Nantes for a comment.í
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:07
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
...can I suggest the colour blindness is a red(?) herring?
I wouldn't say so because if his alleged colour vision deficiency is a fact, then it would have prevented him from holding both the night and instrument ratings. Anywhere, UK, EASA and FAA. Unless he got an excemption of some kind (I once had a student who fought battles with the authorities for five years before he eventually got his night rating because of colour vision issues).
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:09
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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It seems to me that it is very difficult to get an FAA second-class medical certificate if you are colour blind and whatever UK ratings/licence were held, can I suggest the colour blindness is a red(?) herring?
No it's not. You are just restricted to DAY VFR jus the same as a Class 2 in the UK is restricted. It is a fact that the pilot was unable to fly at night due to colour blindness.

Nope, there is no such as a 61.75 CPL. The 61.75 purely gives PPL privileges based on whatever the underlying licence states. This is made VERY clear by the FSDO when collecting the certificate. You can add ratings to it. I hold both a 61.75 and full FAA CPL/IR and I added ratings to the 61.75 before realising I was building it on a house of cards and went for the full certificate.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:13
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by what next View Post
I wouldn't say so because if his alleged colour vision deficiency is a fact, then it would have prevented him from holding both the night and instrument ratings. Anywhere, UK, EASA and FAA. Unless he got an excemption of some kind (I once had a student who fought battles with the authorities for five years before he eventually got his night rating because of colour vision issues).
Iím suggesting that nobody has proved that the colour vision deficiency is a fact.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:18
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
I’m suggesting that nobody has proved that the colour vision deficiency is a fact.
The reputation of the several sources claiming it, in private and public, is enough for me. I am quite sure investigators do have proof by now, as I know these sources are in talks with them.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:24
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChickenHouse View Post
The reputation of the several sources claiming it, in private and public, is enough for me. I am quite sure investigators do have proof by now, as I know these sources are in talks with them.
CH, thanks for confirming that.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 15:59
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno View Post

I no longer have an image of my old JAA licence but can confirm that it had no such rating / privilege. I did a separate night rating before going to the US to do the IR I referred to in my earlier post.
There is a huge difference between not having a rating/privilege to perform a flight operation and not being authorized to perform that flight operation because of a limitation or restriction on one's licence. For example, I am rated commercial multi-engine land and single engine sea. I am not authorized to fly multi-engine sea but my licence does not say "Flight in multi-engine sea prohibited".

This is why I am so interested in actually seeing a UK PPL with no night or instrument ratings. If it does have the actual words "Day VFR only", or similar, then flight in IMC would not be allowed using an FAA 61.75 with an instrument rating. It is not allowed, according to the regulation as written, because it is prohibited by a restriction / limitation of the base UK licence. If, however, the base UK licence grants Day VFR privileges solely because there is no night rating and no instrument rating then the 61.75 with IR would allow operation under IFR in IMC.






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Old 6th Feb 2019, 16:20
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EXDAC View Post
If, however, the base UK licence grants Day VFR privileges solely because there is no night rating and no instrument rating then the 61.75 with IR would allow operation under IFR in IMC.
Nope. If a 61.75 licence is issued on the back of a UK licence which is restricted to DAY VFR (for whatever reason), then the 61.75 will inherit those restrictions and will be endorsed with the phrase

"ALL LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS ON THE UNITED KINGDOM PILOT LICENSE APPLY."

If the holder subsequently passed a US IR, then the licence would be endorsed as such, and any IFR restriction would be removed. But this is all moot since the pilot of this aircraft did not hold any endorsement on his FAA licence that would permit flight under IFR. This much is a matter of public record. The privileges of his UK licence have been widely circulated, but are not in the public domain as a matter of fact. He is said to have an expired IMCr and a day VFR restriction by virtue of being colour blind.

Time will tell whether this is true or not.


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Old 6th Feb 2019, 17:50
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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On another note... it looks like the AAIB commissioned ship "Geo Ocean III" is making it's way back to port. Being the 3rd day of a 3 day search makes sense, but most assumed this would be extended. Possibly as a safe carriage of the persons on board, but this could also have been transported by helicopter? I've a sneaking suspicion that there were two bodies on board but for the sake of families involved they only confirmed finding one.

This is going to get awful messy- between insurers, football clubs, agents, donors etc. With police investigation continuing and CAA in the spotlight, every single word of the AAIB report is going to be forensically examined.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 22:05
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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Good to hear it. Improper activity will impact on everyone when deaths occur like this. The high profile of the passenger has made it seem more important but in reality anyone taking fare paying passengers without the skills is a serious problem. I donít mind cost sharing with someone I know, but many of the activities mentioned in this thread go way beyond that.
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Old 6th Feb 2019, 22:41
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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From WalesOnline

Body inside plane wreckage has been recovered

A spokesman for the UK Air Accident Investigation Branch has tonight said:

Following extensive visual examination of the accident site using the remotely operated vehicle (ROV), it was decided to attempt recovery operations.

In challenging conditions, the AAIB and its specialist contractors successfully recovered the body previously seen amidst the wreckage. The operation was carried out in as dignified a way as possible and the families were kept informed of progress.

Unfortunately, attempts to recover the aircraft wreckage were unsuccessful before poor weather conditions forced us to return the ROV to the ship. The weather forecast is poor for the foreseeable future and so the difficult decision was taken to bring the overall operation to a close. The body is currently being taken to Portland to be passed into the care of the Dorset Coroner.

Although it was not possible to recover the aircraft, the extensive video record captured by the ROV is expected to provide valuable evidence for our safety investigation.

We expect our next update to be an interim report, which we intend to publish within one month of the accident occurring.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 04:06
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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It seems highly likely that the body is that of the passenger who would have been seated in the back. No pictures have emerged of the front section of the aircraft.

The AAIB have indicated they will not recover wreckage so I assume it is unlikely there will be any private effort to raise it.

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Old 7th Feb 2019, 04:59
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
No pictures have emerged of the front section of the aircraft.
Possibly because it contains a body?!
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 06:51
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
It seems highly likely that the body is that of the passenger who would have been seated in the back. No pictures have emerged of the front section of the aircraft.
That depends. It's not clear from the statements whether it has been confirmed there is/was only one body on the aircraft, or whether it just means that only one is/was visible to the divers. If one of the occupants had managed to extricate himself from the aircraft, I would expect it to be the younger, fitter one who was sitting nearest the exit (unless of course the fuselage was breached).

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
The AAIB have indicated they will not recover wreckage so I assume it is unlikely there will be any private effort to raise it.
Again, that may depend on which body has been recovered - I guess we will be told that in the next few hours.

If Sala's remains are still unrecovered, and there is a possibility that the body is inside the wreck, well the family had enough resources to fund a private search so I wouldn't be surprised if they mounted a private recovery effort. While the poor weather has forced the AAIB's recovery operation to be abandoned, the location of the wreck is now known and it's not as if it's going anywhere.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 07:26
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
If one of the occupants had managed to extricate himself from the aircraft, I would expect it to be the younger, fitter one who was sitting nearest the exit (unless of course the fuselage was breached)..
And the one unencumbered by controls, headset cables, and a face full of freezing water on impact.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 08:57
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
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Relevant Sky and BBC links, offered without comment on their accuracy:

https://news.sky.com/story/body-reco...ckage-11630221 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47152773

Jack
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 09:18
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
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Can divers descend to 220ft or was the body recovered by ROV? I suppose wrapping some kind of cable around points of the wreckage strong enough to lift the aircraft to the surface would require the dexterity of divers. Not sure.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 09:54
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Arfur Dent View Post
Can divers descend to 220ft or was the body recovered by ROV? .
67m is well within the reach of a technical or professional diver. A recreational (PADI advanced) diver typically goes to 40m on compressed air but beyond that technical divers using tri-mix or just a lot more compressed air can go significantly deeper with 100m not unknown.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 09:57
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Arfur Dent View Post
Can divers descend to 220ft or was the body recovered by ROV? I suppose wrapping some kind of cable around points of the wreckage strong enough to lift the aircraft to the surface would require the dexterity of divers. Not sure.
Even experienced recreational divers can dive to depths 100m or greater (mainly using closed circuit rebreather technology.)
It would be well within the depth of a commercial diver.

Misty.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:56
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
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Statement from Dorset police

#LatestNews - Statement in relation to body recovered at Portland Port

On Monday 21 January 2019 a plane carrying pilot David Ibbotson and professional footballer Emiliano Sala was flying from Nantes to Cardiff when it lost contact with Air Traffic Control, north of Guernsey.

Sadly a search and rescue operation was unsuccessful in locating the plane and the two occupants. Subsequently AAIB and privately funded search teams were deployed to the relevant area. Using specialist equipment the teams succeeded in locating and identifying the plane and one body has been recovered.

This morning, Thursday 7 February 2019, the body was brought to Portland Port, Dorset, as this is the nearest part of the British mainland to where the plane was located.

The arrival of the body into Dorset has been reported to the Coroner for Dorset. The Coroner will investigate the circumstances of this death supported by Dorset Police. A post mortem examination will be held in due course.

While formal identification is yet to take place, the families of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson have been updated and will continue to be supported by specially-trained family liaison officers, during this difficult time.
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