Light aircraft down in Somerset

[John Farley]

Genghis

Agreed

JF

[rog747]

wreckage - stall? low speed

larger photos here show wreckage profile Kathryn's Report: Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage, WWSL Inc Trustee/Whitespace Work Software Ltd, N186CB: Fatal accident occurred November 14, 2015 near Churchinford, Somerset, England


i was thinking since i saw these photos on Sunday this looks like a low speed high G crash-land since when i first saw the bigger photos on the link above.

perhaps the pilot in vain maybe was looking for a field to put down in and wanted to get the speed down as low as possible for a crash land but it all went wrong? he was only less than 5m from his destination

all i know that living only some miles away is that the weather on Saturday was not much different to that what is happening today (same time too)

its howling and lashing with very low cloud <500m and vis below about 2000m - i live on high ground

a complete tragedy - would his departure station Fairoaks not have given him as what seems a very novice pilot with a new plane some hint that its not a good idea to go or do they not have that remit to say anything???

[runway30]

I think it is a problem when new pilots buy their own high performance aircraft, they are self regulating. There is nobody to put a friendly arm around the shoulder and say what was needed on this occasion, 'not today'.

[treadigraph]

There's a disused airfield at Smeatharpe and another at Churchstanton, both very close to where the accident occurred.

[rog747]

besides his nearby destination and the 2 disused airfield all very clear from the air in normal vis there is an in-use grass airstrip just SE of the village where he crashed located at
50.901430, -3.102576

edit the crash was near buttles farm only thousand yards from the very similar looking airfield of smeatharpe
this is all near the Blackdown Hills

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...5da1a9c28aa190

[robin]

Watchford isn't that large - 400m +

[rog747]

is this watchford as the grass airstrip i mentioned above robin?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.90.../data=!3m1!1e3

[robin]

That's the one

[RatherBeFlying]

Low level windshear can suddenly subtract far too many knots and stall you out.

A lot depends on the local terrain profile.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Some not deeply useful conjecture here.

I know that neck of the woods, I've been into Dunkeswell quite a few times in various flying machines.

- There are quite a few airfields with both hard and grass runways nearby. One, a disused airfield at Upottery is very easy to mistake for Dunkeswell. But, do we really think that with a high end single like this the pilot didn't have a moving map GPS in his field of view?

- There's a lot of nearby high ground, but Dunkeswell itself is within 120ft of the highest anything within about 5 miles, so anybody planning to join at 500ft or above of the Dunkeswell runway should have been above all the nearby high ground.

- Yes pilots with their own high performance aircraft sometimes get a bit carried away. There's no evidence anywhere that I can see, yet, of the pilots general judgement about his flying, or how good he was with his aeroplane.

- Windshear is primarily a large aeroplane problem, it's not generally significant in anything this light.

- It is a known local practice at Dunkeswell to do a cloudbreak on the ILS at Exeter then proceed to Dunkeswell at low level. I have no idea if this is relevant or not.


I'll make my own conjecture. This will be a very tough accident for AAIB to draw useful conclusions from. They may be able to download a GPS and possibly some avionics, but without eyewitnesses, a mayday call, any survivors to interview - I think that the report will probably become not much more than a bland statement of facts from which we'll only really be able to guess what happened.

Which is a shame, because I'm sure that if there were enough known, there would be lessons from this accident that could aid all of us. We may be able to draw some useful conjectures once we do have AAIB's reports - but only "may" in my opinion.

G

[runway30]

Genghis, I have no idea how good a pilot he was or whether he continued his training or completed an IMC rating or a US I/R. However a period within a flying club after obtaining a PPL gaining additional ratings/experience is a check on pilots exceeding their capabilities.

[RatherBeFlying]

Windshear is primarily a large aeroplane problem, it's not generally significant in anything this light.

My recorder showed a 35 kt low level windshear that almost finished me off at a weight of 775#

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by runway30

Genghis, I have no idea how good a pilot he was or whether he continued his training or completed an IMC rating or a US I/R. However a period within a flying club after obtaining a PPL gaining additional ratings/experience is a check on pilots exceeding their capabilities.

It does, but as you said - we have no idea if this applied to the accident pilot or not.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying

My recorder showed a 35 kt low level windshear that almost finished me off at a weight of 775#

Care to expand on that? Possibly in a separate "close call" thread, as that sounds rather interesting from a learning perspective.

G

[RatherBeFlying]

http://www.pprune.org/accidents-clos...ml#post9001999

[rog747]

mods - 2 threads going re Somerset crash

dear Mods

there is another thread on bizjets which is equally as informative as this one

perhaps merge the 2?

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...ml#post9183758

regds

[horizon flyer]

I believe instructor find self made people who are more used to giving orders than taking them can be the most difficult to train and can have an inflated sense of their skill level. This could be the cause of this sad crash.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by horizon flyer

I believe instructor find self made people who are more used to giving orders than taking them can be the most difficult to train and can have an inflated sense of their skill level. This could be the cause of this sad crash.

It is a known phenomenon.

And it's also something for which there's absolutely no evidence in this crash, at this time.

G

[Pull what]

Windshear is primarily a large aeroplane problem, it's not generally significant in anything this light.

So given the same amount of windshear off the end of a runway a light aircraft could land in safety but a large airliner would have problems-sorry that sounds ridiculous to me!

Which is a shame, because I'm sure that if there were enough known, there would be lessons from this accident that could aid all of us. We may be able to draw some useful conjectures once we do have AAIB's reports - but only "may" in my opinion.

Apart from the stupidity of the conjecture about a sucessful businessman taking risks, useful conjecture, even at this stage maybe- Dont fly in weather thats outside your experience or outside the privelleges of your licence or rating. Dont put yourself(and your passengers) in a situation where you feel you have to get in. A diversion may cause inconvenience but its always better to be inconvenienced and alive than otherwise

[Mixed Up]

Could he not have had QNH set when he thought he had set QFE? He may have thought he was 800' AGL (and in cloud). When he saw the ground he may have pulled up hard and stalled into the ground.

The ground is about 800' AMSL there.

Such a tragedy for so many. I hope the AAIB report will report quickly.