Cargo Crash at Bagram
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Someone asked fro the rate of descent at impact. From the video it is 7,000 ft/min +-2,000 ft/min.
That is probably approaching terminal velocity for something with the drag coefficient of a S&L mushing 747.
That is probably approaching terminal velocity for something with the drag coefficient of a S&L mushing 747.
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For strapping and holding any weight at all you need many points of hold. I design Load and cargo securing anchors and channels specifically for the Steel and heavy haulage industry here in the UK, along with the Mira Institute and the Steel Producers we now have a fool proof system for holding 25Tonne coils of steel/lumps of steel plate or blooms.
Each Drop forged Anchor is designed to a swl of 5000kilo per anchor point, these would be attached to Polyesther Lashings with a equalled strength Ratchet, all these items have been tested to destruction and will hold up to 9500kilos as individual items, so take an example of one Coil of Steel weight 25000kilo, this would be held by a minimum of ten Forged anchors that equates to a SWL of 50000Kilo, with a known destruction point under shock loading of 95000kilos.
However it all rests on the strength of the foundation of what you are anchoring to, each Anchorage needs a separate Foundation anchorage, otherwise you will loose your load should any sort of incident occur!
Road transport shun chains for you cannot tighten them, you can impose pressure on them but once a chain link meets its oposite chain link thats the end of the tightening proceedure with links, polyester and or Nylon Straps/lashings are far more able to handle any movements due to the way these items of lashings are manufactured. provided the operator follows the manufactures instructions.
Exactly the same will be true in any bulk cargo carried in ANY aircraft.
Each Drop forged Anchor is designed to a swl of 5000kilo per anchor point, these would be attached to Polyesther Lashings with a equalled strength Ratchet, all these items have been tested to destruction and will hold up to 9500kilos as individual items, so take an example of one Coil of Steel weight 25000kilo, this would be held by a minimum of ten Forged anchors that equates to a SWL of 50000Kilo, with a known destruction point under shock loading of 95000kilos.
However it all rests on the strength of the foundation of what you are anchoring to, each Anchorage needs a separate Foundation anchorage, otherwise you will loose your load should any sort of incident occur!
Road transport shun chains for you cannot tighten them, you can impose pressure on them but once a chain link meets its oposite chain link thats the end of the tightening proceedure with links, polyester and or Nylon Straps/lashings are far more able to handle any movements due to the way these items of lashings are manufactured. provided the operator follows the manufactures instructions.
Exactly the same will be true in any bulk cargo carried in ANY aircraft.
Last edited by Peter-RB; 16th Jun 2013 at 13:23.
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'''' The Car Ferry loads made a single flight before being unloaded. A different load would normally be taken for the return flight..
We carried a lot of cars over the years, all clamped down with chains, as mentioned. A loaded Bristol Freighter sis not have (quite ?) the same T/O performance as a B747.
I had ONE highly magnetic car. It showed that the QDM of the R/W at Le Touquet had altered by 10 degrees since we had landed a few minutes earlier ! ( The weather was clear, so we continued.)
Goldfinger's car would not have had THAT effect.
We carried a lot of cars over the years, all clamped down with chains, as mentioned. A loaded Bristol Freighter sis not have (quite ?) the same T/O performance as a B747.
I had ONE highly magnetic car. It showed that the QDM of the R/W at Le Touquet had altered by 10 degrees since we had landed a few minutes earlier ! ( The weather was clear, so we continued.)
Goldfinger's car would not have had THAT effect.
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Hello, everybody,
do we have any news about B-747 crash?
In my humble opinion (according to the my small experience in 747F), most problem was that straps were not carefully checked after flight OAZI-OAI.
Straps used on 747F are normally lost their tension during long flight, especially on heavy loads.
It means you have to carefully check it after each flight and tight more on ground.
Otherwise cargo will not be secured correctly.
As somebody said before, domino effect can be presented after take-off.
I am agree with it.
Last car moved to aft wall of maindeck could made CG approx. 48-50% MAC.
That's enough for 747F (aft limit is 33%, but one airline did successful take-off with 37% a few years ago).
That's only my opinion.
do we have any news about B-747 crash?
In my humble opinion (according to the my small experience in 747F), most problem was that straps were not carefully checked after flight OAZI-OAI.
Straps used on 747F are normally lost their tension during long flight, especially on heavy loads.
It means you have to carefully check it after each flight and tight more on ground.
Otherwise cargo will not be secured correctly.
As somebody said before, domino effect can be presented after take-off.
I am agree with it.
Last car moved to aft wall of maindeck could made CG approx. 48-50% MAC.
That's enough for 747F (aft limit is 33%, but one airline did successful take-off with 37% a few years ago).
That's only my opinion.
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Mainsail has a good point. The front straps on this particular vehicle pictured are routed through sharp edge steel tow points ( that may normally use added round edge shackles for towing ). There appears to be no protection or wrapping for the webbing to avoid the steel hard edge. If these are the main aft motion restraints for the vehicle then that would be questionable. ( and I'm no expert). I realize the pallet may be secured to the floor very well, but if the wooden packing fails then these straps become a critical item for preventing aft CG movement of the load.
As far as I can see from the picture above, none of the straps are fixed to the vehicle. They are just running through the fixing points. Only two straps seems to arrest any sideway motion, apart from maybe two slack chains.
Per
Per
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I'd like to point out to the conspiracists,
The dunnage is not there as a load restraint system. It's there to prevent the vehicle impacting the working floor when it compresses on its suspension during landing or in flight turbulence.
Lack of chains on heavy vehicles? Not going.
Having said that, I watched an il76 get airborne out of Kabul the other week and the only load restraint apparently was the vehicle handbrake...
The dunnage is not there as a load restraint system. It's there to prevent the vehicle impacting the working floor when it compresses on its suspension during landing or in flight turbulence.
Lack of chains on heavy vehicles? Not going.
Having said that, I watched an il76 get airborne out of Kabul the other week and the only load restraint apparently was the vehicle handbrake...
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Dunnage is mainly used as a load spreader .
It is used on the likes of 55 gal drums or anything with a rim to get the FLI within limits.
Also used on vehiclea where the tyre footprint will exceed the FLI.
It is used on the likes of 55 gal drums or anything with a rim to get the FLI within limits.
Also used on vehiclea where the tyre footprint will exceed the FLI.
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want to explain how dunnage adds fore/aft restraint if its under the body of the vehicle then? if it takes any part in load distribution, its only in the vertical sense, and sure as hell not fore aft.
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The actual reason for the wooden slats was to prevent the join between the two pallets from hinging upwards during ground handling. There are also possibly other reasons, but who cares? Whatever they were, this restraint system seems sufficiently flawed to produce fatal results.
I am not just complaining on pprune. I have also emailed my concerns to the military facility that designed the particular loading and restraint system. If there is another similar accident, I am prepared to make a copy of my email available to victim families and insurance companies.
I am not just complaining on pprune. I have also emailed my concerns to the military facility that designed the particular loading and restraint system. If there is another similar accident, I am prepared to make a copy of my email available to victim families and insurance companies.
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Press Release -
NTSB Opens Docket on 2013 Crash of Boeing 747 Cargo Plane in Bagram, Afghanistan
Docket List -
Accident ID DCA13MA081 Mode Aviation occurred on April 29, 2013 in Bagram, Afghanistan Last Modified on February 03, 2015 12:02 Public Released on February 03, 2015 12:02 Total 51 document items
NTSB Opens Docket on 2013 Crash of Boeing 747 Cargo Plane in Bagram, Afghanistan
Docket List -
Accident ID DCA13MA081 Mode Aviation occurred on April 29, 2013 in Bagram, Afghanistan Last Modified on February 03, 2015 12:02 Public Released on February 03, 2015 12:02 Total 51 document items
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The Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Flight Data Recorder (FDR) both cease recording sometime immediately after the aircraft’s rotation during its departure from Bagram Airfield.
Read the CVR transcript up to rotation though, and it is quite chilling and telling if the cause was indeed a cargo shift.
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Having both recorders stop abruptly at rotation does make one suspect that the integrity of the area around the aft pressure bulkhead was violated at that moment, likely by inadequately secured cargo.
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I've taken the time to read through 90% of the reports provided by the NTSB. Although no concrete conclusions have been reached yet, the NTSB report does strongly suggest that the #1 MRAPV (mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle) broke loose from its tie-downs during the takeoff sequence and smacked into the aft pressure bulkhead of the accident aircraft, taking out the #1 and #4 hydraulic systems as well as the horizontal stabilizer jack screw. (Or whatever it's called.)
Prior to the flight the flight crew had remarked on a broken tie-down from one of the 5 MRAPV's in the aircraft's hold.
Prior to the flight the flight crew had remarked on a broken tie-down from one of the 5 MRAPV's in the aircraft's hold.
NTSB report does strongly suggest that the #1 MRAPV (mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle) broke loose from its tie-downs during the takeoff sequence and smacked into the aft pressure bulkhead
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Looking at the picture in post 661. I'm Very surprised that they are using strops rather than chains. In another life in the early 70's on the ATL98's we always used chains for vehicles (to stop the stretch) & were trained to calculate the number required taking into account the tie down points to hold fast in a 9g impact. (Well that is what we were taught) before we were entitled to do a load & trim sheet.
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tdracer:
the bits and pieces of the aircraft, and cargo, found on the runway area is also contained in the NTSB report. As are descriptions of the marks the MRAPV made on the rear pressure bulkhead.
A loadmaster did not do his job that day. Not at all.
Icepack:
I was appalled when I saw the use of strops to hold down an 18-ton vehicle (x5). Back in my SP Howitzer days we even used chains to tie down our 155mm guns to railway cars, let alone an 18 ton vehicle in an aircraft.
the bits and pieces of the aircraft, and cargo, found on the runway area is also contained in the NTSB report. As are descriptions of the marks the MRAPV made on the rear pressure bulkhead.
A loadmaster did not do his job that day. Not at all.
Icepack:
I was appalled when I saw the use of strops to hold down an 18-ton vehicle (x5). Back in my SP Howitzer days we even used chains to tie down our 155mm guns to railway cars, let alone an 18 ton vehicle in an aircraft.
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I was appalled when I saw the use of strops to hold down an 18-ton vehicle (x5). Back in my SP Howitzer days we even used chains to tie down our 155mm guns to railway cars, let alone an 18 ton vehicle in an aircraft.
The Weight & Balance Manual for the airplane will dictate the number, angles, and distribution of the straps and the number of individual tiedown points that must be used; based on the size, weight, and position of the cargo.
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Also significant is that on the landing in the inbound sector it sounds like they planted it on and really harped on the brakes, for whatever reason. They had a subsequent brake overheat and it was all part of the discussion captured on the CVR about pallets that had shifted and broken some straps.
This could have been the catalyst to what happened on the next takeoff. The broken pieces of hydraulic tubing found on the runway do make you wonder. I guess the cargo impact on the rear bulkhead was substantial enough to clarify as a "crash" which severed or compromised the CVR and FDR power, making them stop recording shortly after.
I wonder if the QAR recorder was destroyed beyond use. I know many of the cockpit parts where, so it probably was. I'm sure this came up during the investigation but I did not read the entire report.
This could have been the catalyst to what happened on the next takeoff. The broken pieces of hydraulic tubing found on the runway do make you wonder. I guess the cargo impact on the rear bulkhead was substantial enough to clarify as a "crash" which severed or compromised the CVR and FDR power, making them stop recording shortly after.
I wonder if the QAR recorder was destroyed beyond use. I know many of the cockpit parts where, so it probably was. I'm sure this came up during the investigation but I did not read the entire report.