Adam Air B737-400 fatal crash January 2007
AustralianMade
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Out in the weather!
Age: 54
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rumour in Java is that CVR/FDR recovery costs will not be met by NTSC, so Adam Air (presumably assisted by other interested parties including aviation insurers) may pay for them to be hauled up from 5500 ft below the Straits of Makasser (if they have not moved in the 40kt current).
How long do those things ping anyway? I bet AA can stall the search long enough to make them go away...
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Asia Times article about the state of Indonesian aviation.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wreckage located
http://www.phnx-international.com/Feb%2020,%202007.htm
PHOENIX LOCATES ADAM AIR FLIGHT 574
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 --Washington, DC -- Phoenix International, Inc., (Phoenix) announced its key role in the successful discovery of Indonesian Adam Air Flight 574 lost west of Pare Pare, South Sulawesi in 5,500 feet of water. The Boeing 737-400 aircraft and its 102 passengers and crew were lost on a flight between Surabaya, Java and Manado. Indonesian authorities were uncertain of the cause of the crash, and whether or not the airplane crashed on land or at sea. After 11 days, parts of the aircraft washed ashore at Pare Pare confirming Flight 574 crashed in the ocean.
Phoenix, under contract to the U.S. Navy’s Supervisor of Salvage and Diving, NAVSEA 00C (SUPSALV), mobilized a Towed Pinger Locator (TPL-40), L-3 Klein System 2000 side scan sonar, and operations crew to conduct the search and mapping effort. The TPL-40 is a passive listening device capable of receiving the acoustic emissions of the salt-water activated beacons that are common emergency equipment on board all commercial aircraft. Upon deploying the TPL and acquiring signals from the beacons, the Phoenix operations crew methodically worked to home on the beacons to refine their locations. Once done, the crew conducted a detailed side scan sonar survey of the entire debris field. All information and survey data were then passed to Indonesian representatives for their consideration in a recovery decision.
The successful search and mapping effort was conducted aboard the U.S. Naval Oceanographic Office survey ship, USNS MARY SEARS (T-AGS 65).
Phoenix is SUPSALV’s prime contractor for conducting underwater search and recovery operations to water depths of 20,000 feet worldwide. The company provides quality manned and unmanned underwater operations and engineering services to an international customer base. Areas of capability include Underwater Ship Inspection & Repair, US Navy & ABS Certified Underwater Welding, ROV Operations, Deep Ocean Search & Recovery, Subsea Construction Support, Submarine Rescue, and Underwater Equipment Design. Available resources include divers and diving systems, one-Atmosphere Diving Systems (ADS), Remotely Operated Vehicles and associated tooling systems, and turnkey engineering design and development capabilities.
------------------------------------------------
PHOENIX LOCATES ADAM AIR FLIGHT 574
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 --Washington, DC -- Phoenix International, Inc., (Phoenix) announced its key role in the successful discovery of Indonesian Adam Air Flight 574 lost west of Pare Pare, South Sulawesi in 5,500 feet of water. The Boeing 737-400 aircraft and its 102 passengers and crew were lost on a flight between Surabaya, Java and Manado. Indonesian authorities were uncertain of the cause of the crash, and whether or not the airplane crashed on land or at sea. After 11 days, parts of the aircraft washed ashore at Pare Pare confirming Flight 574 crashed in the ocean.
Phoenix, under contract to the U.S. Navy’s Supervisor of Salvage and Diving, NAVSEA 00C (SUPSALV), mobilized a Towed Pinger Locator (TPL-40), L-3 Klein System 2000 side scan sonar, and operations crew to conduct the search and mapping effort. The TPL-40 is a passive listening device capable of receiving the acoustic emissions of the salt-water activated beacons that are common emergency equipment on board all commercial aircraft. Upon deploying the TPL and acquiring signals from the beacons, the Phoenix operations crew methodically worked to home on the beacons to refine their locations. Once done, the crew conducted a detailed side scan sonar survey of the entire debris field. All information and survey data were then passed to Indonesian representatives for their consideration in a recovery decision.
The successful search and mapping effort was conducted aboard the U.S. Naval Oceanographic Office survey ship, USNS MARY SEARS (T-AGS 65).
Phoenix is SUPSALV’s prime contractor for conducting underwater search and recovery operations to water depths of 20,000 feet worldwide. The company provides quality manned and unmanned underwater operations and engineering services to an international customer base. Areas of capability include Underwater Ship Inspection & Repair, US Navy & ABS Certified Underwater Welding, ROV Operations, Deep Ocean Search & Recovery, Subsea Construction Support, Submarine Rescue, and Underwater Equipment Design. Available resources include divers and diving systems, one-Atmosphere Diving Systems (ADS), Remotely Operated Vehicles and associated tooling systems, and turnkey engineering design and development capabilities.
------------------------------------------------
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Straya
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These same contractors are pulling up an Australian Army Black Hawk and a deceased soldier from 2900m below the Pacific. If they can find and retrieve that they should be able to pull up at least a CVR and FDR, perhaps a whole lot more plane.
They would need someone to foot the bill though, they don't work free. The Aust govt paid for the Black Hawk retrieval, even though there is unlikely to be much mystery in the circumstances of the loss.
They would need someone to foot the bill though, they don't work free. The Aust govt paid for the Black Hawk retrieval, even though there is unlikely to be much mystery in the circumstances of the loss.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wolves
Age: 57
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know if the CVR or FDR have been retrieved yet. I've trawled the news networks but without success. Seems to have gone very quiet as regards the investigation and as you chaps (and chapesses) are at the leading edge of any news, I thought I'd ask here first.
Thanks
Thanks
From Reuters
JAKARTA (Reuters) - A U.S. salvage company has retrieved the flight data and cockpit voice recorders from an Indonesian plane that crashed into the ocean in January with 102 people on board, officials said on Tuesday.
The Boeing 737-400, operated by budget carrier Adam Air, went down on New Year's day in the sea off south Sulawesi in one of the country's worst air disasters.
An underwater robot scouring the sea off Majene on Sulawesi retrieved the flight data recorder on Monday and cockpit voice recorder on Tuesday, said Tatang Kurniadi, chief of the Indonesian Transport Safety Commission.
The two devices were found at a depth of around 2,000 metres and were 1,400 metres apart, he said.
The search effort was conducted by the U.S. seabed salvage company, Phoenix International, in cooperation with the U.S. National Transport Safety Board and the Indonesian commission.
"The black box will be sent to Washington for analysis," Kurniadi told a news conference in Jakarta. The analysis to try to determine the cause of the accident could take months, he added.
The black box refers to the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder.
Efforts to recover the black box were delayed due to disagreements between the government and Adam Air over who should bear the cost.
The 17-year-old plane was heading from Surabaya in East Java to Manado in northern Sulawesi when it vanished in bad weather. The plane made no distress call, although the pilot had reported concerns over crosswinds.
The Boeing 737-400, operated by budget carrier Adam Air, went down on New Year's day in the sea off south Sulawesi in one of the country's worst air disasters.
An underwater robot scouring the sea off Majene on Sulawesi retrieved the flight data recorder on Monday and cockpit voice recorder on Tuesday, said Tatang Kurniadi, chief of the Indonesian Transport Safety Commission.
The two devices were found at a depth of around 2,000 metres and were 1,400 metres apart, he said.
The search effort was conducted by the U.S. seabed salvage company, Phoenix International, in cooperation with the U.S. National Transport Safety Board and the Indonesian commission.
"The black box will be sent to Washington for analysis," Kurniadi told a news conference in Jakarta. The analysis to try to determine the cause of the accident could take months, he added.
The black box refers to the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder.
Efforts to recover the black box were delayed due to disagreements between the government and Adam Air over who should bear the cost.
The 17-year-old plane was heading from Surabaya in East Java to Manado in northern Sulawesi when it vanished in bad weather. The plane made no distress call, although the pilot had reported concerns over crosswinds.
More bang for your buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: land of the clanger
Age: 82
Posts: 3,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For how long can the FDR and CVR remain in salt water without being damaged? What are the design parameters for such situations?
- In a crash impact test, a gas cannon fires the recorder into an aluminium honeycomb target, causing a 3400g deceleration.
- In the penetration resistance test, a 225kg weight with a 6mm hardened steel spike is dropped on the recorder from a height of over 3 metres.
- A static crush test applies 2.3 tonnes of force to each of the unit's six major faces.
- Deep sea pressure is recreated in a special chamber filled with pressurised salt water, with the tested unit staying in the pressure chamber for 24 hours. It must then survive in a salt-water tank for 30 days.
- The temperature test is fuelled by three gas-powered torches, with the recorder placed in the middle of the fireball.
fforts to recover the black box were delayed due to disagreements between the government and Adam Air over who should bear the cost.
Hope there will be something to extract out of those recorders...
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the Reuters report quoted by CaptainSandL is correct, surely it is high time some sort of fund be set up (by the World Bank perhaps?), which could be drawn on to pay for a salvage operation such as this without delay. Haggling over who pays back the money could be left for a later date.
Rockhound
Rockhound
Isn't very convininent that the government has the right not to pay for a recovery operation so some accident causes annoying to the government can remain unknown?
I am wondering if a close relative of the minister or transport or the prime minister was on board this flight it would have taken so much time to retrieve the recorders?
Rwy in Sight
I am wondering if a close relative of the minister or transport or the prime minister was on board this flight it would have taken so much time to retrieve the recorders?
Rwy in Sight
That might seem "convenient" but I truely believe that the government of Indonesia does not have the money to pay for such a salvage operation. However, the Indonesian govt is responsible for the oversight of its civil aviation, but not at all costs.
And to be honest, the readout of this FDR/CVR is not going to have great influence on the state of jeopardy that the Indonesian civil aviation sector is in. No matter what the outcome, getting in an Indonesian plane is still not safe.
Now then. Since the FDR/CVR are brought to the USA, I suppose that we can expect a preliminary findings report in the near future, right?
The US does not have the same legislation as Canada for instance, which prevents any Canadian investigative body to reveal anything for years.
(AF358/YYZ, Kenian Airways/DLA)
And to be honest, the readout of this FDR/CVR is not going to have great influence on the state of jeopardy that the Indonesian civil aviation sector is in. No matter what the outcome, getting in an Indonesian plane is still not safe.
Now then. Since the FDR/CVR are brought to the USA, I suppose that we can expect a preliminary findings report in the near future, right?
The US does not have the same legislation as Canada for instance, which prevents any Canadian investigative body to reveal anything for years.
(AF358/YYZ, Kenian Airways/DLA)
ICAO is making signifcant progress in suggesting standards for who pays. Think of it as a fund (much like how aviation is ensured) and ultimately allocated afterwards via culpability.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
7 Posts
The Canadians and the Americans will never reveal what has been said on the CVR's but if you look at my post on the Kenya Airways thread you will see what the cause was.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Somewhere in the Tropics UTC+7 to 9
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UPDATE on Adam AIr 574 that went missing in January.
NTSC and NTSB is reported to have started retrieving data from the FDR and CVR as of 10th Sep (if I remember the date correctly).
Current info is that IRS error and weather radar failure suspected.
PK-KAR
NTSC and NTSB is reported to have started retrieving data from the FDR and CVR as of 10th Sep (if I remember the date correctly).
Current info is that IRS error and weather radar failure suspected.
PK-KAR
jetsy
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: US for now
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JAKARTA: The Adam Air black box recovered from the Majene Sea off West Sulawesi after an aircraft accident this year has been opened and can be read, said a spokesperson for the Transportation Ministry.
"I've received an SMS from chairman of the National Air Transportation Safety Commission (KNKT) Tatang Kurniadi to say the black box could be read.
"I received the message Sept. 10, local Washington time, this was only a few hours ago," Bambang S. Erva, told detik.com.
"The attempt to read the black box began last Tuesday (September 5)," he said.
An Indonesian team, with the assistance of the Washington-based National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), managed to open and read the black box of the Adam Air aircraft, which fell into the bottom of the Majene Sea off West Sulawesi.
The aircraft went messing on its way from Surabaya to Manado on New Year's Day.
Those involved with the black box reading project include Indonesian Defense Attache Brig. Gen. Erwin Barley, Air Force Attache Col. Yuyu Sutisna, representatives of the U.S. NTSB, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Australian Transportation Safety Bureau (ATSB) and Boeing.
But Bambang declined to mention the results of the black box reading.
"We cannot publish it yet... we have to evaluate it first." -- JP
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detail...912.H05&irec=4
"I've received an SMS from chairman of the National Air Transportation Safety Commission (KNKT) Tatang Kurniadi to say the black box could be read.
"I received the message Sept. 10, local Washington time, this was only a few hours ago," Bambang S. Erva, told detik.com.
"The attempt to read the black box began last Tuesday (September 5)," he said.
An Indonesian team, with the assistance of the Washington-based National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), managed to open and read the black box of the Adam Air aircraft, which fell into the bottom of the Majene Sea off West Sulawesi.
The aircraft went messing on its way from Surabaya to Manado on New Year's Day.
Those involved with the black box reading project include Indonesian Defense Attache Brig. Gen. Erwin Barley, Air Force Attache Col. Yuyu Sutisna, representatives of the U.S. NTSB, the Federal Aviation Administration, the Australian Transportation Safety Bureau (ATSB) and Boeing.
But Bambang declined to mention the results of the black box reading.
"We cannot publish it yet... we have to evaluate it first." -- JP
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detail...912.H05&irec=4