Adam Air B737-400 fatal crash January 2007
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A v B - B v A - B v Mcd - blah blah blah..............
Please forgive this outside-of-the-discussion-excursion, but I am compelled to post the following:
While Airbus do aggressively price their wares, Boeing now sees fit to offer some real discounts to the lowly and under-$1B-order customers also.
Manufacturer sanctioned maintenance arrangements can obviously augment local *cough* engineering capabilities.
The ingenious Airbus FBW system and thoughtfully programmed computer system are a boon to airlines with inexperienced crew and/or where their first language may not be English. Consider limited local training resources as well.
Competence should be more.....attainable.
Passengers worldwide seem to enjoy the IFEs and may even notice a slightly wider cabin compared to the competition.
Disposable? - While quoted A320 cycles may not be equal to the long-lived 737, not every airline requires such endurance. Besides, resale values for A320s still seem to hold up quite nicely, thank you.
Sorry for this - but even Boeing has sense enough to avoid quoting safety when it comes to the competition.
Airbus is about to deliver the 3000th A320 series sometime later this year. They must be doing something (perhaps several 'somethings') right to attain this goal.
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread....
Manufacturer sanctioned maintenance arrangements can obviously augment local *cough* engineering capabilities.
The ingenious Airbus FBW system and thoughtfully programmed computer system are a boon to airlines with inexperienced crew and/or where their first language may not be English. Consider limited local training resources as well.
Competence should be more.....attainable.
Passengers worldwide seem to enjoy the IFEs and may even notice a slightly wider cabin compared to the competition.
Sorry for this - but even Boeing has sense enough to avoid quoting safety when it comes to the competition.
Airbus is about to deliver the 3000th A320 series sometime later this year. They must be doing something (perhaps several 'somethings') right to attain this goal.
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread....
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Adam Air does, indeed, have a lot to answer for........but why on earth would any airline intentionally opt for Airbus? Initial economies, and kick-backs to management from EADS must be wieghed against risk in operating "disposable aircraft". The bottom line still doesn't make sense when weighed against safety and lives.
Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.
Air Asia (Malaysia) has the largest feet of NEW A320's going..... on my LAST (and I DO mean LAST) Air Asia flight ex KL, I caught a glimpse of the flt deck on boarding one of theiir NEW A320s and was amazed by the sea of orange DMI stickers on the panels. I thought they had changed the Airbus cockpit colour scheme...
My family does NOT fly Air Asia or Adam Air any more. Neither do I ! Flights with MAS only accepted if it's on a Boeing.
Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.
Air Asia (Malaysia) has the largest feet of NEW A320's going..... on my LAST (and I DO mean LAST) Air Asia flight ex KL, I caught a glimpse of the flt deck on boarding one of theiir NEW A320s and was amazed by the sea of orange DMI stickers on the panels. I thought they had changed the Airbus cockpit colour scheme...
My family does NOT fly Air Asia or Adam Air any more. Neither do I ! Flights with MAS only accepted if it's on a Boeing.
and stick to the actual thread please....!
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There must be many that are still lost, but for starters how about the BSAA Lancastrian that crashed in the Andes around 1950. That was well over 50 years before they discovered the wreckage, having flown into a mountain in terrible weather.
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Saw the video on this crash & belated recovery.
To be more specific, it crashed on a glacier near the Argentine - Chile border, became buried in snowfall, and slowly moved down the mountain with the glacial flow, until the melting runoff revealed it five decades later.
I believe a similar fate befell a WWII training flight discovered in California only a year ago.
And a Lockheed 14 "Super Electra" (basically a civil Hudson) disappeared between Italy and Corsica (not Sardinia) around 1950. It was not found until Comet I YP went down in the same area off Elba a few years later, and the search teams found the Lockheed debris also.
To be more specific, it crashed on a glacier near the Argentine - Chile border, became buried in snowfall, and slowly moved down the mountain with the glacial flow, until the melting runoff revealed it five decades later.
I believe a similar fate befell a WWII training flight discovered in California only a year ago.
And a Lockheed 14 "Super Electra" (basically a civil Hudson) disappeared between Italy and Corsica (not Sardinia) around 1950. It was not found until Comet I YP went down in the same area off Elba a few years later, and the search teams found the Lockheed debris also.
Last edited by barit1; 28th Jan 2007 at 18:28.
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Some details of prior problems with the crashed Adam Air plane are starting to leaking out. Problems were listed with systems including the weather radar, vertical-speed indicator, left-right inertial reference system, fuel differential light, cockpit instrument lights and wing flaps...
Adam Air jet subject of pilot complaints before crash
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/30/news/adamside.php
also,
An Indonesian transportation investigator said the pilot reported strong crosswinds from the left in his last radio transmission, but the control tower said the wind was coming from the right, pointing to possible navigational problems.
The plane, which twice had to change course because of the rough weather, also could have been turned around, Ruth Simpatupang said.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...esia-Plane.php
Adam Air jet subject of pilot complaints before crash
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/30/news/adamside.php
also,
An Indonesian transportation investigator said the pilot reported strong crosswinds from the left in his last radio transmission, but the control tower said the wind was coming from the right, pointing to possible navigational problems.
The plane, which twice had to change course because of the rough weather, also could have been turned around, Ruth Simpatupang said.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...esia-Plane.php
AustralianMade
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Thanks ABX. There is also a growing body of information at wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Air
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Air_Flight_574
Salju
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Air
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Air_Flight_574
Salju
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From academician point of view
Hello,
I am Ema74,
About Boeing 737 of Adam Air that lost at North Sulawesi on January 2007, how about seeking opinion from academicians who has some partnerships with airlines in Indonesia ?
Indonesia has some universities that having Aerospace Department, the oldest and the best is at ITB (Institute of Technology Bandung).
Well, I will try to contact colleagues who are experts on air transportation, aircraft maintenance and airlines management.
They have scientific knowledge about it, they are Indonesian, and they knew situation of airlines in Indonesia to some extent because some partnerships they have been done with some major airlines in Indonesia.
I think it is good to seek and listen to their opinions about the Adam Air's accident at North Sulawesi mentioned above.
Regards,
I am Ema74,
About Boeing 737 of Adam Air that lost at North Sulawesi on January 2007, how about seeking opinion from academicians who has some partnerships with airlines in Indonesia ?
Indonesia has some universities that having Aerospace Department, the oldest and the best is at ITB (Institute of Technology Bandung).
Well, I will try to contact colleagues who are experts on air transportation, aircraft maintenance and airlines management.
They have scientific knowledge about it, they are Indonesian, and they knew situation of airlines in Indonesia to some extent because some partnerships they have been done with some major airlines in Indonesia.
I think it is good to seek and listen to their opinions about the Adam Air's accident at North Sulawesi mentioned above.
Regards,
I think technology has moved on from the 50's and 60's. I am still amazed that in 2007, a downed commercial airliner, is still missing. I can only imagine what the families of those on board who perished are going through. My thoughts are with them.
AustralianMade
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Hi ema74,
Welcome to PPRuNe, I hope you enjoy the experience.
My question for you:
How can academic experts have a reasonable opinion about Adam Air's latest disaster when the wreckage hasn't even been found yet, let alone examined?
Regards,
ABX
Welcome to PPRuNe, I hope you enjoy the experience.
My question for you:
How can academic experts have a reasonable opinion about Adam Air's latest disaster when the wreckage hasn't even been found yet, let alone examined?
Regards,
ABX
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ema747,
There was one article covering one academic's (from ITB if I remember correctly) view on the accident, and sorry to say, it was nothing short of a hilarious disappointment.
And, if I understood a comment from one investigator, "there are just too many people trying to get publicity and betting that they're right because nothing concrete has yet to be found."... so follow his advice, "filter cautiously!"
You wouldn't believe how many debates I've had with so called "academics" / or even "former professionals turned academic" on today's world of aviation... I wished I've recorded some of them on video... *evil grin*
PK-KAR
There was one article covering one academic's (from ITB if I remember correctly) view on the accident, and sorry to say, it was nothing short of a hilarious disappointment.
And, if I understood a comment from one investigator, "there are just too many people trying to get publicity and betting that they're right because nothing concrete has yet to be found."... so follow his advice, "filter cautiously!"
You wouldn't believe how many debates I've had with so called "academics" / or even "former professionals turned academic" on today's world of aviation... I wished I've recorded some of them on video... *evil grin*
PK-KAR
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Yes PK I agree, the skills most needed right now are engineering and accident investigators. Perhaps some good detective work thrown in.
Academics can come later, to give us insight into the human factors, both at pilot, air traffic and management level. Even then, we have to be careful that the academic tail does not wag the operational dog.
Sad this has drawn out so long. If this was a B2 with nukes onboard it would have been found a month ago.
Academics can come later, to give us insight into the human factors, both at pilot, air traffic and management level. Even then, we have to be careful that the academic tail does not wag the operational dog.
Sad this has drawn out so long. If this was a B2 with nukes onboard it would have been found a month ago.
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Update on CVR/FDR recovery
"The International Herald Tribune reported on Jan. 30 that Adam Air had safety issues before the accident, citing complaints by pilots alleging low maintenance standards. Suherman said the airline has tight safety requirements and planes leased from GE Capital Aviation Services have been inspected at random.
Aam Air has also been in contact with the salvage companies Smit Internationale and Phoenix International to recover the flight data recorder of its missing plane from the ocean, Suherman said."
Rumour in Java is that CVR/FDR recovery costs will not be met by NTSC, so Adam Air (presumably assisted by other interested parties including aviation insurers) may pay for them to be hauled up from 5500 ft below the Straits of Makasser (if they have not moved in the 40kt current).
Aam Air has also been in contact with the salvage companies Smit Internationale and Phoenix International to recover the flight data recorder of its missing plane from the ocean, Suherman said."
Rumour in Java is that CVR/FDR recovery costs will not be met by NTSC, so Adam Air (presumably assisted by other interested parties including aviation insurers) may pay for them to be hauled up from 5500 ft below the Straits of Makasser (if they have not moved in the 40kt current).