Originally Posted by
MSOCS
WEBF,
I'm sorry but ultimately a carrier is a floating airfield, but with more complication than a land-based airfield. Cdre Jerry Kyd has even said so himself, on the record, and he's skipper of QNLZ.
Other than the Ship being on DFC, ostensibly assuring that recoveries are "into wind" and maximise WOD to reduce relative speed over the deck on landing, all the other things you list are just as applicable to an airfield.
You can squinny all you want about my point of view, but I've plenty of experience flying from land and carriers. Bottom line: the carrier is a floating airfield and has all the departments and procedures required to make it an effective one. They are slightly modified to land-based, but that's only to achieve a safe launch and recovery.
MSOCS
The point is a carrier has all the functions and faculties of an airfield packed into a small physical space, and then some more, making integration critical. Most of the things need to make flying possible and safe are provided by the ship, not the embarked squadrons.
On the old Harrier Decision and other threads (like th
is one from 2006), it was clear that some (RAF I assume) types thought that carrier flying had no perishable skills as "we turn up to the ship and fly.....". To use the things I stated for an aircraft recovery...
Ship on right course/speed -
OOW/bridge watchkeepers/Navigator/Marine Engineers
Clear deck -
Chockheads, also a whole ship need to avoid FOD
Radar -
Warfare branch operators and Weapon Engineering maintainers
Radio Communications -
WE(CIS) (communicators) and WE maintainers
Visual aids -
WE maintainers
Therefore it can be helpful to consider a carrier operating aircraft as a warship operating her weapon system - her aircraft.
Originally Posted by
MSOCS
Warship? You believe the Carrier is the same sort of warship as an FFDD?! Cdre Kyd has himself stated that the carrier "is a floating airfield", so he (I presume) is also of "my ilk". Seriously, the floating airfield requires defending - not like many land-based airfields sure, but FOBs require defences of a different nature - but ultimately the weapon system on a carrier are the organic assets that take off and land on it. A couple of CIWS and .50 cals does not make the carrier the same "ilk" of warship as an FFDD. Not by a long stretch, yet the fundamentals of fire and flood control, manoeuvres and air C2 endure.
Stop deluding yourselves - the Captain of HMS Queen Elizabeth hath said so from his very mouth and he knows better than you!
Oh, and ref your elitist point about land-based AFCO successfully carrying out the timing, i've personally witnessed absolute carnage at sea when I flew Harriers from CVS's....at one stage we were invited to conduct Case 3 approaches and join the "cake stand", only to have to point out to the sea-based ATCO that the cake stand at that time was in a mountain. The ship was too close to land and pointing the wrong way. Oh, and not to mention the numerous times "mother" wasn't where she promised she'd be at the end of a mission when fuel was low... Don't be too smug about crabs vs fish heads; both have stunned and embarrassed themselves in equal measure and neither can claim superiority over the other.
FF/DD are not the only warships! A ship does not need her own missiles/torpedoes/medium calibre gun to exist to achieve a military effect - for example a MCMV hunting mines.
....the weapon system on a carrier are the organic assets that take off and land on it.
Yes - which means the ship needs to be in the right place, right course and speed, radar etc working, communications circuits set up... So that makes the carrier a warship with very long range weapons?
The ship was too close to land and pointing the wrong way. Oh, and not to mention the numerous times "mother" wasn't where she promised she'd be at the end of a mission when fuel was low... Don't be too smug about crabs vs fish heads; both have stunned and embarrassed themselves in equal measure and neither can claim superiority over the other.
I wonder if some of the problems you raised were due to the lack of practice whilst Joint Force Harrier was committed to Afghanistan? But anyway - surely this points to the need for integration? The carrier is a platform for her air group, in the same way as any other ship with sensors/weapons. Aircraft launch or recovery demands actions from the ship and limits her ability to manoeuvre at will, not unlike a frigate deploying a towed array sonar, a destroyer firing a missile, or a LPD trying to offload troops into landing craft.