As usual the prune professional slaggers crawl out from under their stones to deride anyone with an opinion that isn't exactly in line with theirs or that they think they can belittle for not being exactly like them - ie retired - generally considered in our society a very boorish and unacceptable, bigoted thing to do while ignoring the fact that the retired are quite likely to be more experienced than they are, but of course they cannot know but shoot from the gob anyway.
50%Nothankyou, it may have escaped your notice that there is a chain of command on an aeroplane and that the Captain is at the top of it. I gather you take the modern view that no one is ever at fault for anything but believe me you are just plain WRONG. The final responsibiity rests with the Captain. I this case he didn't just make one cardinal mistake, he made a whole string of them, none of them excusible and as NHP without the possibility of being maxed out by flying. These errors are so fundamental that there can be no excuse.
No one has said we shouldn't learn from this incident or examine it deeply, least of all me, yet this accusation seems to have been pointed in my direction in the usual prune baseless slagging-off style by people who invent things others have never written.
Equally I have never suggested crucifying anyone in this case - an utterly baseless accusation as ever - I merely stated the obvious that no one else could shoulder the blame. Because they can't.
"Just culture" involves not crucifying people for human errors, not gross professional misconduct which imo is the only definition possible for landing on a wet runway downwind with a spare stage of flap unused, and then failing to go around after the f/o floats half the length of the runway. "the monment had passed" had it? Bloody long moment, that one, he had what must have felt like aeons to think about it. No-one at fault my @rse!
Even so I haven't suggested any form of punishment - merely responsibility. A fact that some holier-than-thou false accusers who can't be bothered to actually read other peoples' posts before slagging them off - like JC07 might like to take on board. Talk about pot/kettle! You are a paragon, sir!
I may be considered old-fashioned by taking the view that Professionalism involves Responsibility - and that includes shouldering the responsibility, even when your colleague screws up, because YOU ARE IN COMMAND. I am certainly not a crucifier and believe 100% in a just culture but I also cough to my errors and am happy to take what's coming if I deserve it. I do NOT agree with the namby-pamby notion that finding fault is undesireable and people shouldn't suffer sanctions if they get things culpably wrong.
Also, perhaps actually reading what is written and not inventing stories/opinions/scenarios between other peoples' lines might result in a more "just culture" here... think about it.
Last edited by noflynomore; 6th Jun 2017 at 10:28.