Originally Posted by
Vorsicht
I like your style Biatch, never let facts get in the way of blaming everyone else for something you don't understand.
I'm assuming you didn't like my reference to lesser blame being the unions.
The point of my post was primarily to show the justification of CPD to Duxnutz as a response to the effect the LH EBA had on SH pilots.
Ugh.... You got me... Point taken... Thanks for the correction... That is what I meant.
Sure, I take your point (again) but they did vote for it none the less (which I would have too!). Whilst they are more than entitled to expect what they voted up occurring (of course), I was merely tying to suggest/show that what they voted on affected a group of pilots who had no input.
Look obviously I apparently have the timeline / blow by blow slightly wrong. Or at least from your perspective I do. It did not seem this way to me from the communications I received/read and also from the way LH pilots I spoke to spoke about it. IE it was always in the past tense "we voted this in" , hence the inference that they negotiated what they voted in. I was not directly involved in negotiations no, so I apologise if I got wrong the exact circumstances the offending clauses were introduced.
Yes, I am quite aware of this. Again my point was to show they downtrodden CRZFO's how what they voted on might be/seem unfair to a group of pilots directly affected with no right to vote. And also how CPD is a reasonable/justified compromise.
If such a sh*tfight was forecast then may I politely ask why a no campaign wasn't run?
So in short.
The Company was entirely to blame.
The industrial instruments worked exactly as they should have. LH pilots voted on their document without any interference from SH pilots. SH pilots addressed perceived issues in their document without any interference from LH pilots.
End result that nobody particularly happy, which in general usually means about the right outcome.
Agreed. Please tell downtrodden and marginalised CRZFO's that it's all evenly shared!
If you're not happy with the way your union is representing you, get of the couch and onto a committee and have a real say rather than criticising those who give up their own time and work tirelessly for nothing, for your benefit.
Again, primarily the blame I apportioned to the company.
Originally Posted by DUXNUTZ
So the practical bottom of the list (behind every short haul pilot hired behind them) wasn't good enough for you? I enjoy the contemp that's still evident for present and past CRFO's/SO's, but with every year that passes there's more to help guide any future EBA negotiations.
No it is good enough for me. What you're alluding to, CPD, was the best fix for the affect SH pilots had felt from the apparent company's imposition. If there is contempt on the line for CRZFOs, it's because they fail to see/recognise that what was voted in affected a large group of pilots who had no vote! I get that you're pissed that what you voted in got diluted/adjusted through the implementation of CPD. Hell, if I were in your shoes I would be too. But can you not see the flip side??
RE the pay topic that is being brought up now... I think it's quite reasonable to expect that CRZFO's earn more than CS/FM's at any pay/year level. Whilst respecting the work that they do in the cabin, at the end of the day, the personal cost of the training alone to get into any control seat justifies a larger pay.