Herod : Re your post 59 ; I think it might be tea & biscuits with the Fleet Captain. Put round the other way, non-ETOPS but you find yourself in an ETOPS segment (?). I was on the N Atlantic, non-ETOPS aircraft and non-ETOPS route but with skillfull, routine, geometric compass and Douglas Protractor, found ourselves ETOPS for 10 minutes. OK, 80 nm is nothing but with my history of historic abuse & persecution, I volunteered the info & got a right royal ticking off. Yeah, I hear you all saying I should have kept quiet but with my history, I would have faced public ridicule and a spot on the Larry King show ! That company went bust (probably my fault) but in the next, a long sector could be made a lot shorter by a direct route which would take you ETOPS (for about 10 minutes) Lots did it,without ETOPS clearance but with my background, I stuck to the rules. Still got set up like the proverbial ten pin 15 years later though !Nowadays, much less stressful in my inflatable boat, in my own pool. Dinghy practice anyone ?