Hi Nick
I have always logged 'training first officer' time as SNY - in accordance with the accepted practice within the particular airline.
CAP 804 does indeed state at Section 1, Part E, p 13 F(ii): 'Pilot supervising Co-pilot activities' may be logged as 'P2'.
However, CAP 804 does not define the term 'pilot' in this instance - for example, does the term mean 'training captain', 'captain', 'commander', 'co-pilot', 'other type-rated pilot' or any or all of these?
CAP 804 Section 1, Part E, p 15, 10.2 states, amongst other things, that a Co-pilot may not log as flight time any periods during which he does not occupy a pilot’s seat.
This statement contradicts F(ii) from a 'training'/supernumerary co-pilot's perspective.
I have occupied the jump-seat as a supernumerary/safety pilot who, in the normal course of events, would not expect to take any part in the operating of the aircraft.
The RHS pilot is type rated but not yet qualified by operator to be SIC until released for being so. That means without third pilot on jump seat, the flight can't depart legally. The only qualified SIC is the pilot on the jump seat, therefore s/he will log it as P2.
The co-pilot/first officer is
licensed to fly the aircraft - licence, medical, type rating (including base training) all valid/completed.
It is an operator's requirement to set a certain number of sectors of line training. The flight being conducted by a training captain (TRI) who is supervising the licensed first officer.
The 'training first officer' is usually present during the first four or so sectors - not throughout the whole of the line training process - to provide additional help during initial line training and to assist if for some reason the trainee is unable to cope, for example - not a legal requirement for a 'training first officer' on all sectors prior to the final line check. I used to supervise re-fueling, do the walk round, help with the cockpit workload and the like to leave the training captain free to spend time teaching the new first officer procedures during turn rounds and create additional learning time whilst airborne.
I have always logged and taught people to log this as SNY only never P2 as you are not sitting in a pilots seat.
and
Is it acceptable to have 2 FOs logging P2?
There was no question of my role being 'P2' as there was a licensed co-pilot occupying the right hand seat and I had no direct input in the operating of the aircraft. As you say, can you have two pilots claiming 'P2' - I think not at the same time!
I'd be a bit surprised if any other UK operators work in a different way as I've fulfilled the role of 'training' first officer within several UK airlines and all operated in a similar manner.
Having said, and experienced, all of the above we are now in the brave New World of EASA and I find it hard to comprehend exactly when a 'pilot' would be supervising the activities of a co-pilot and therefore claim 'P2' - training captain claims 'PIC', trainee first officer 'P2', supernumerary/training first officer traditionally 'SNY', so why another 'P2'?
I must say I've never come across two pilots acting at the same time as 'P2' (or in any other capacity at the same time) and find it difficult to reconcile within CAP 804 when there are apparently several conflicting definitions?
FOK
