Its all been written in this and other Tianjin threads.
Its been a while, and I am still getting PMs from people wanting to know what is going on at Tianjin. I no longer work there. I gave it up and moved to a company that pays me much less and I am purely happy. My life has been very pleasant and stress free. I don't grit my teeth anymore. And by chance I do grit my teeth there is not the gristle from fine sulfur bits from air so polluted it makes chemotherapy companies giddy with sugar plum fairies filled with Euros and Dollars.
So lets try to wrap this up. You are looking at Tianjin because something in your life or career didn't go quiet right and now you are looking for options. Why else would you be looking to get yourself out of a cushy spot? Right?
The biggest question lately is about the agencies. Why are some advertising more than others? Because they are lying bastards through and through. All the contracts offered by Tianjin, which Tianjin has paid timely, are exactly the same. How does that add up then? Because one contractor will advertise the base salary with the bonuses so you can see exactly what you get in a break down. The other used car salesman trick that other agencies use is advertising all the bonuses, allowances, extras, and the base salary averaged monthly over the duration of the contract. Sometimes these shady agencies will even advertise pay raises even though they have not been officially approved by Tianjin yet. -Note to yourself - something looks shady already- There are small differences in the contracts such as contract termination times of 30 days or 4 months. There are some other differences like when pay day occurs.
Americans, Yes you must pay taxes and yes you will get deductions. You will have to ALSO pay social security taxes on your wages. I don't care if you really do or not. That is between you and the IRS. But when they come for you, just like an HIV test result, you can't escape whats on the piece of paper they have in their hands.
Flying long term overseas is OK but the skill of flying in China demands managing skills and not so much flying skills. Although you will need all your flying skills to get pass the initial check ride. I was gone for 6 years from my home country. When I returned I had to relearn how to fly. How to use the radio, how to fly in dense airspace with rapid fire communications, how to use an electronic flight bag, how to shoot CATIII approaches, how to shoot RNP GPS approaches, how to fly a visual approach which is never done in China as well as just work in a cockpit that is CRM compared to the one man dog and pony show that a Chinese cockpit is and many other things. You do want to be at the top of your game when you do get that dream job for initial training on an airplane you never flew before right? Think about that.
China is a place that is not pleasant. Its tolerable. Shanghai is a decent place but anything in the North is 30 years behind Shanghai which is 15 years behind in culture to the rest of the modern world. Is it changing? Are there pockets of culture and coolness? Yes. But while you are there for your 3-10 years you won't get that High Street in London look or feel. Just try to get a straight up martini with real top shelf vodka with decent olives. Something simple like your favorite box of cereal or a decent martini will become Sir Galahad's quest.
Tianjin Airlines is not mean they are just inept. They are being guided by some of the expats there and they are trying but telling a person to dance when that person has never known what dancing was is difficult. This often leads to something that is not remotely close to dancing even though they themselves are starting to think they are pretty good at dancing. I believe this is how break-dancing was started. You will have a hair line pushing backwards a few centimeters as you constantly face palm yourself.
Is living in China ideal. No. No and No. Do they pay you lots of money. Yes. Do you lose out on seniority at home YES YES YES. Unless there is some spacial anomaly time marches forward no matter what country you go.
Make a spreadsheet out and list your goals financially and how that necessitates a seniority back home because this because this is big. You will not work in China for the rest of your career. The chance of that just with the medical process makes that extremely remote. There are other factors that will phase you out too but just with the medical alone will kill you of ever getting near mid 50.
Retiring after a few years.... OK look you really need to think about this because I have heard this from too many people. Think this through and talk to a retirement planner because I have heard some really retarded ideas. And when I mean retarded I don't mean it in an offensive way. I mean it in a clinical term. These people are mentally retarded. You cannot work for 6 years in China and then retire unless you had money prior to Asia and plan to live in a yurt. Most of you guys are coming here in your 30s and 40s. We are now living well into our 80s. Stopping work 10-20 years prior to retirement is financial and literally suicide. Every year you don't work prior to retirement you are draining the assets that should be accumulating for retirement. Talk to tax accountants, talk to wealth managers, talk to retirement advisers to give you a real sense of what your life costs.
In the EU things are barren. More barren than my grandmother and she's 86. The US market for pilots is heating up and 3 years is decent but anything longer than this will slowly drive nails into your career coffin. Tianjin really doesn't hire the young guys. You can read some of my posts why. But assuming you are in your 30s and 40s you are probably planning to return to the States. The benefit of fast rolling numbers is lots of people like yourself get hired. The curse of fast rolling numbers is alarmingly vast amounts of younger than you pilots get on that same seniority list. I've just returned to my home country and there are people with no commercial PIC already being hired into the flag carriers. These people will not retire before you. They are forever a ceiling on the list. Europeans will have more leeway in time unless you fancy Ryan Air. My advice to fellow Eurozoners is to catch one of those American university girls on their EU trips and lay down your native accent thick. Get the US passport and watch your seniority rise faster than a rocket and then move back to the EU to retire.
The economy has started its next cycle. The world is rebounding and the time to the next downturn is already ticking. Choosing to stay 6-10 years in China is a HUGE gamble if you want to return to your home country. Look back at former economic cycles and pilot hiring. Don't set yourself up to be stuck on the F/O list or worse yet on the street. Now look at the other end of the timeline. That guy who leapfrogged you back home on the seniority list has been sitting pretty at the top of the seniority list looking down from his A350 cockpit with the Tuesday-Thursday trip to Aruba and weekends at home. Don't be stuck on standby for the rest of your career.
Here are the mandatory captain retirements at just the 3 largest airlines in the US in the next 10 years and this does not include any of the other low cost carriers, commuters, and corporate flying. And this does not account for new rest rules or expansions just pure mandatory retirements.
Year - Mandatory Retirements
2014 - 794
2015 - 836
2016 - 937
2017 - 1141
2018 - 1390
2019 - 1629
2020 - 2128
2121 - 2364
2122 - 2191
If you have no where else to go then China is a real option but to put yourself out of a seniority number at this point is something to think about. You can always go overseas if you get furloughed but you can't go back to a seniority number you never had.
Don't fall for the large blocks of holiday. That 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off is a brutal schedule. You will still fly about 800+ hours in a year with that contract. I'm not very senior at my company but I still get 16 days off with holidays, Xmas, and New Years. Well that's damn close to a 6 weeks on and two weeks off contract and almost a 6 weeks on and 3 weeks off too. And I get my perfect martini with real vodka. What good are days off if you are too tired to live the simple pleasures?
So before you PM me again read all the messages about Tianjin. Tianjin is of course going to tell you its comfortable and they even have some pilots there that will tell you its paradise until you arrive and meet the rest of the pilots and they are generally frustrated at life. Hey, you make the big bucks for something not because they think you are a nice guy.
You are most likely here on this board looking at this message because of some financial crisis, your airline is dying, or you really could use some time away from that troll you call your wife and you might as well make some money and come down with "Yellow Fever" in the process. There are lots of reasons but something at home is not working.
I will leave you with this simple phrase I heard once on a short wave radio that I picked up from what I thought was a Southern Baptist preacher
"Son, let me tell ya, you see that green grass, and you want that green grass your neighbor has, and you covet it, and you want it, and you even love it. But Son, let me tell ya, YOU JUST AIN'T SEEN THE WATER BILL."
- China is much more than just about the salary and time off. You can't live like you live at home. All those comforts are gone in China.
Last edited by pilotss2001; 15th Nov 2013 at 19:43.