Yes I do agree they have an tarnished safety record in the past. Hopefully this will improve with more expats. I don't think Turks are bad pilots. With the right training and mindset, KSA - Knowledge, Skills and Attitude, they will improve immensely. I have bad pilots and good pilots from any country. The problem is not the individual. It's is more likely to be a corporate culture issue. The invisible transportation of military rank and culture into a non military invironment. When the FO out ranks the captain, and it is silently and mutually accepted, then you have a serious problem. Eventually these senior pilots will will either retire or have to learn new tricks. I don't work for them, butmI hear things are different on the long haul fleets. Gule Gule