Originally Posted by airdualbleedfault
Yes Icarus, I believe Bloggs has joined Geaches in smoking crack
Are you going to acknowledge your faux paw with those Gatwick numbers of yours or can we just assume
you are smoking crack??
As for
nowhere else in Asia do they use COBTs, when you are approaching airports in Asia and China they slow/vector you as required, Australia is unique in requiring a COBT AND a time at a waypoint with less than 1 minute buffer (depending on your watch/clock), so not sure what you are on about
You obviously have very little idea how the WA airspace runs because if we just got "slowed/vectored as required" without COBTs it would be a total shambles.
I wonder if they use COBTs/CTOTs/slots in
busy places like Europe...
Originally Posted by Iccy
Bloggs you are either being mischievous or plain silly. You know that even with COBT one still has to vary the speed to reach the feeder fix at the required time. It is happening so not that hard. As you know once airborn the system becomes tactical rather than strategic and aircraft are processed on receipt.
Well der, that's obvious. I was merely saying that from a pilot's point of view, it is far easier to just taxi at a COBT than work backwards from a Feeder Fix time: how long to get there, how long for the departure, how long for the taxi, oh hang on another aircraft is inbound, drat, that'll be an unplanned extra 5 minutes to get to my Feeder Fix while we wait for him to land, bugger. Why you would prefer that over "just taxi as close as you can to XXXX and we'll sort it out airborne" is beyond me.
Originally Posted by Squawk 7600
It's difficult to take any ATC system seriously that follows an aircraft for 4 hours as it crosses continental Australia, then advises shortly before top of descent of a requirement to lose 10 minutes before the next waypoint
I've done a lot of flights into Perth (departing with less than 2hr flight time, as you're abeam ADL) and I cannot remember when I got a 10 minute delay "shortly before top of descent".
Originally Posted by Squawk7600
My point being if the perception is that METRON is working well I think you'll find considerable dissension amongst the final users.
It's working a damn-sight better that the previous system, especially now that most operators are complying with their COBTs. If there is still extensive holding with good compliance (and I've never had more than 15 minutes recently) then the Metron rate needs to be slowed-down a tad.
Originally Posted by Ops Normal
Problem is Bloggs is that after adhereing to a COBT, wheels-up at specified time some operators are still getting between 5-25+ mins enroute holding on CAVOK days then watching the two preferred operators get track shortening plus 300KIAS on descent and we watch them fly over the top at 15nm to run the VOR as we have been sitting on our "gifted" 210KIAS for the last 50nm. We then get to sit behind them at half the speed we want to be down their vectored long final. We miss our slots, our passengers miss their connections, we suffer busted slots for the rest of the day due consequential delays due to the first sector delays, pay our fines for missing those slots, go broke and ASA get to bleat about just how much money they are saving the industry etc on their recorded on-hold phone prattle.
See the issue clearer now? It is much easier and fairer to pre-allocate a realistic feeder fix time (say 50nm from the nominated airport) and should be available half an hour before due airborne and have the aircrew have to make that time or go away until they will fit in...
Right, so we have twenty aircraft holding at the Feeder Fix waiting for their allotted time to come up. Clever.
Originally Posted by Jarse
Toughen up, Bloggs. I thought you ex-military types were expert at +/- 15 secs over a waypoint
Us ex-boat drivers can do it to a minute on the east coast
When you were only doing two miles a minute +/- a minute or two didn't really matter!!
And yes, I belt my FO over the head with the paper if he/she misses our Feeder Fix time by more than 12 seconds! If the FMS would indicate less than 1/10 of a minute, I'd be there.
