PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Take off with snow on wing
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Old 25th Apr 2012, 22:06
  #385 (permalink)  
Clandestino
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
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Our esteemed PPRuNe colleague seems to share another trait with the legendary captain Dudley: persistence. While obvious t-person is obvious, his marveling on application of the second Newton's law on the frozen 737 racing down the runway with too low thrust (How did he achieve the V2? - See NTSB report, findings, #20) shows where many a debate here takes a wrong turn; folks with feeble grasp of elementary physics, building up advanced aerodynamic theories on flawed basic notions.

Connets has made an interesting point:

Originally Posted by Connets
During my working years as an academic, I realised that we don't always ask what, precisely, we hope to acheive by the use of the penal sanction (and I include internal disciplinary proceedings). I would have thought that here it is not to exact vengeance, but to prevent the harm from happening.
What is very well known to psychologists, penal law experts and sociologists but is cheerfully ignored by lawmakers and general public is that high chance of getting caught is far more powerful deterrent than severe punishment. It neatly explains people being pick-pocketed while watching the execution of pickpockets in Dickensian England or numerous executions for graft in country I shall not name due to political correctness.

Considering the laws of aerodynamics, that Mother Nature applies with absolute impartiality while showing no mercy, this observation might help to explain why-oh-why pilots keep on taking off with snowy or iced over wings. Possible punishment is capital, yet the chances that it will be meted out are slim. The snow might indeed slip off the wings and anything still clinging on as the aeroplane climbs out of ground effect is usually not enough to completely reduce the lift to the point below the weight. Afterwards, as ice melts, there's no way to tell whether the disaster was averted by a knot, five or ten and ignoramuses in cockpit go very long way to prove their experiment was both safe and legal. I find definition of take-off as being only the actual liftoff quite amusing, taken in combination with the big red warning at the bottom of the page.

However, I have seen far too many successful takeoffs with snow on the wings in the real life to kid myself with the notion that anyone advocating laissez-fair approach to ice is really an impostor. Seemingly, some Russians are not the only one susceptible to the malaise of ignorance. Or Spaniards. Or LoCo drivers. Or third world pilots. That fellow next to you might be infected too.

I'm curious.. It's well known contamination can increase the stalling speed but would the stick shaker also operate at a higher airspeed?
No, unless aeroplane has modified stall warning threshold when operating anti ice devices, e.g. automatically with selection of flight controls horn heating (I forgot exactly which one) on ATR or manually selected on DHC-8. No such thing on A320 and I never heard about it on B737.
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