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Old 1st Jan 2012, 09:25
  #114 (permalink)  
MaroonMan4
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Aaah, I see now....

But although I agree the sound of getting rid of the Merlin (and CHF) in favour of Puma would go some way to stopping the Pongos from taking all RW (and might even lead to a strong argument for all helicopters back to the 'Air Domain') I think we will have to be careful as we have only just finished arguing that we should retain Merlin and not let the Fisheads have it.

Presentationally it doesn't look very good to one moment say we want Merlin, then when we find that we have lost it, suddenly present an argument to say that it wasn't cost effective anyway, and actually Puma all along was the cheapest option to Defence.

But if our airships can sell it, then brilliant and although I have no idea what a Puma can do, then if it can do more than the Wildcat and Merlin, let's keep the Puma (AH will just have to work a bit harder on the recce tasks that Wildcat was to do in the future, while Puma more than makes up for the Lift requirement). If cheaper to run and operate then we will win hands down. Not being on Ops to being on Ops - especially after 2015, is not a big resource bill I would imagine.

The only negative bit of this (through hard experience in suffering on the O boat-i.e. I have scared myself on a few occasions) is the Chinook, Apache and any other non core maritime aircraft do not just pitch up, do stuff and go home. I will subscribe to a lot of things, but if you really want Chinook (and Puma) to embark to do amphib ops then train me and my crews properly, with the correct teams embarked to do the planning and integrate with grey funnel lines.

The only thing that is trumping the bean counters at the moment is the safety/MAA line and I for one (as authoriser and aircraft captain) do not want to volunteer for time at sea full stop, but if I am forced to go to sea at short notice untrained and with low currency is far worse. As I have said before, a few day/night deck landings does not make me or my crew competent in amphibious operations.

But if I understand the posts above correctly and I am led to believe that we within the light blue are seriously presenting a case that we believe that we can deliver a cheaper RW programme with Puma and Chinook (probably resulting in efficiencies downstream that could result in absorbing AH in due course) then that is music to my ears, as at the moment we are currently staring the barrel of being forced to amalgamate with the Army and all that it entails.

Like many others on this thread, if I have to become a brown job I will, but I really would rather not!!

So a future JHC of Puma, Chinook and AH (3 core types for DE&S) =
No CHF, no Army Wildcat = secure future for us

Capability retained, cost reduced - win win.

Last edited by MaroonMan4; 1st Jan 2012 at 09:52.
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