This is my conclusion for the discussion. These are some points I still have.
1. The best solutions start with the best questions.
2. When it comes to battery fires; primarily lithium battery fires there are many many situations and there is no one solution.
-small to midsized corporate airplane
-corporate airplanes as small as a phone booth with both passengers and crew having cell phones and laptops on chargers...Yes crews putting cell phones on chargers as they lay on the back panel under charts, coats, etc.
-regional airliners to 747
-Electronic devices containing batteries in cockpit, on someones lap, overhead compartments, or luggage compartment
-cargo planes
3. There are many many devices from laptops, cell phones, medical equipment, games, tools, and on and on to even batteries themself. We talk about laptops but cell phones igniting while on people's belt has been reported several times as well.
3. There are several types Lithium of batteries
-Lithium
-Lithium ion
-Lithium polly
-and well over a dozen more different type of chemistry's and mixes. All act a little differently.
When you see a devise with smoke coming out, who has time to ask "Sir, what type battery is that?". "I duno, let me read a manual".
4. What ever battery we deal with today, there will be a new battery and a new issue tomorrow. Water and Halon feed these fires today, what about tomorrows new power technology.
5. Isolating battery failurs with CO2 does not stop the battery failure; it needs no oxygen and is self sustaining. It would help however adjacent materials from continuing to burn.
Reading earlier about cooling the battery in a coffee pot; coffee pot containment good......Pooring water worked but only recomended if you can GARANTEE cell rupture.......Any cell rupture and water or halon will feed the fire creating the worst possible outcome, toxic smoke and more toxic smoke. This is what makes the FAA video such a joke. All they have done is feed the cells that have ruptured. It is minimized by the heavy fire which made the rupture consume most of the batteries where a slow rupture or burn would just be waiting for something such as water to ignite it.
6. There are different speeds at which a battery fails and NOT ONE would be relevant to a laptop with a fire burning underneath. If that were the case the fire below the laptop would be more concerning. A laptop test ignited by an outside fire source is simply irrelevant.
-Battery failures could be slow such as an overheat due to blocked fans where the circuitry in the computer was too slow to shut the computer down. You have time.
-Battery failure could be quicker where some one dropped the laptop while putting it in overhead storage and say it fell. In the process terminals were short circuiting in the damage and the laptop was put back in the overhead storage. That would be one of the worst scenarios.
7. Getting control over batteries in cargo would be tough. Even with strict rules batteries are shipped with new camera's, toys, tools, laptops, 100's of phones and many many other items. I don't see controlling batteries in cargo of a passenger craft or a cargo craft a very easy thing to accomplish. If I sell batteries for a project on ebay are you convinced I will disclose it in shipping?
8. The battery fires are not as bad as they seem. Once they explode, burn, etc, much of their volatility is gone. The risk after that is 2 fold:
-What else will it ignite? Other cells of course. Most airplane materials will not burn but clothing and personal belongings will. The lava that spews from these batteries will burn for some time too; and burn hot.
-Effects of the smoke which are worse then the fire in a compartments containing humans (or pets)
-For these two reasons I would push for containment testing.
9. I believe the industry needs to get together to really take a look at it. I still don't think they know what direction to go. In dealing with it I think it needs to broken down into several aspects:
-Adequate ways of containing battery fires...depending on the situation
-Different situations which need addressed
-Small corporate airplane
-Passenger Airline
-Cargo Airline
-Cockpit
-Passenger compartment
-In cabin storage
-Cargo compartment
-Slow failure
-Fast failure
-Associated fires
- And on and on and on.......
10. I would like to see the industry lead the way with the solutions. I have never seen the FAA create solutions for things like this. They throw the industry a bone till something worse happens and then they try something else. That is why the FAR's are known as a blood book. The FAA is nothing but a REACTIONARY organization not a proactive organization (sorry FAA guys but I think most of you there would agree).
If I said the FAA has not taken it seriously, let me rephrase that. They have responded to public pressure seriously but not attacked the battery problem seriously; there's a difference.
Industry involvement from:
-Aircraft manufacturers
-Airlines
-Large corporate operators
-Proactive refurbishment companies; I see a lot of opportunities for interior options
-Few other people
11. Safe solutions will involve techniques, technology, and education for everyone involved from the management to the person who throws bags on the airplane.
I am not talking about heavy regulation but about the industry taking it seriously. Before 1985 it was common or macho to fly the ILS regardless of weather even with thunderstorms on the airport or on final. After a Delta crash at Dallas in 1985 it changed how everyone viewed flying near thunderstorms in landings. Anyone who has ever flown a simulator has flown that profile if not once a 100 times.
The worst thing is a group of uninformed people standing around going hmm, what now? Try xyz.....That is what training is for. Figure it out before the accident.
Why should we wait for the equivalent of the 1985 L1011 crash?
In final, charging ...yes hobby batteries (which people ship too)...are charged in containers, clay pots and such. As a rule, Lithium batteries are stored in fireproof containers although few follow this rule. Lets face it, us hobby people who build circuits, write computer programs, and play with electronic hardware create situations a little less safe then commercial equipment (generally). We get to know our dangers and limitations. For that reason I have had one rule when owning a house; My shop is not attached. If I am welding, or creating an electronic device, or what ever, I can sleep knowing what ever I have done I am safe int he house while I sleep.
Here is someone charging a battery in a common manner, although my clay pots are upside right so I can carry it outside:
