This is a good thread.
I disagree with Shortly on one matter only; namely that this discussion should be on Fragrant Harbour. The reason being that riff raff like 411A don't seem to have found it yet.
In addition, this thread has particular relevance to Oz given the huge amount of turmoil that has taken place in Oz aviation since the late 80's, the legacy it has left behind and the current employment prospects for a large number of highly qualified and motivated people who love aviation.
CX has a rich goldmine in which to prospect.
Shortly is absolutely correct when he describes the varied views and perspectives that exist within the CX pilot body. This is however a microcosm of what HK is actually like at every level.
I have studied this place for more years than I care to remember. I have seen the good old days when management couldn't get us pay increases and bonusues quickly enough to more recent times when reality set in.
It is how everyone has reacted to these changes that has dissappointed me.
The late Peter Sutch (MD of CX and Chairman of Swire Group)was a wonderful man and highly thought of by all. I do have to wonder,however, if he would be so kindly thought of if he had Eddington's job or now Turnbull's job.
Management has disappointed me because they didn't have the courage to restructure the business properly in the first place. The root cause of a lot of trouble and the divisions in the pilot body is due to the A & B scale and all the other permutations that have happened since. I do not believe in my heart that this complexity was created by management to divide and conquer. A company like Swire does not change from being a benevolent employer into a conniving, penny pinching scrooge in a couple of years.
One of the posts started comparing management to the likes of Enron, Worldcom and Global Crossing. I can assure any of you young blokes in the company that the Turnbulls, Tylers and Rhodes of this company do not make big bucks.
I think the real parting of the ways came about when the AOA publicly pronounced CX management unfit to run the business.
An insult is an insult in any culture.
The AOA has got it fundamentally wrong. They can huff and puff all they want and they will get support from a lot of the guys who believe that a union is necessary even though the current situation seems untenable.
There are a large bunch of guys who would happily pay the 5% to support the 49'ers as a stand alone issue. The problem is that issue cannot be resolved in the current framework.
What the pilots need are advocates and that does not equal AOA as it currently stands. The AOA cannot advocate anything as it does not have anyone to advocate to. Management has all the cards. HK is what it is. CX will be here after we are all dead.
Not to prattle on too long...the AOA is painted into a corner.
Turnbull will not talk to Demery. Demery has just been re-elected. A goodly portion of the senior guys are out of here over the next 3-4 years. Many members of the AOA don't like the ban etc but believe they have no alternative but the AOA as an advocate but without anyone to advocate to.
In summary, it is a complex family squabble. The only way to bring some closure that returns some advocacy power to a pilot representative body is a public apology (hardly likely) to management. Who knows it may even lead to a review for the 49'ers plus plus.
For those wanting to join, make your own decision. The reality is HK isn't much of a place to raise a family these days but you will not be treated as a leper afterall most pilots are pretty decent sorts.