Riveting as it is, can't you guys just take this "discussion" (I use the word lightly as only one person seems to have any idea whats going on....) down the pub, if you're going to have to agree to disagree you will feel a whole lot better about it after a few pints than ranting and bitching on here - or else just start a new thread about BHX Security, there are for sure enough posts to fill more than a few pages.......