Originally Posted by Checkboard
For this accident, or the Turkish at Schiphol, all the pilots had to do to save the situation was shove the thrust levers up.
- NB That is exactly what they did! Problem is that they appear not to have kept them there and in order to apply full nose down stick I suspect the TC (or HP) took his hand off the throttles to use both hands - and they closed.
I have never tried it, but I don't think the autopliot has a cat's chance in hell of controlling the pitch-up from an aft-trimmed situation with full power. Note also that Boeing (in the FCTM) suggest disconnecting the A/P where ground contact is a factor and then using roll and rudder if necessary to get the nose down from the ensuing loop entry. What fails to be stressed, over and over again in run-of-the-mill airline 'training', is that such a recovery will take you STRAIGHT in to a nose-high 'upset' which requires A/P disengaged. Are you saying you flew 4 stick shake recoveries with full power applied - and the A/P coped? You never got more that 25 deg nose up? What Boeing say about this is interesting, and I do not think properly addressed.
" An approach to a stall is a controlled flight maneuver; a stall is an out-of-control, but recoverable, condition. Note: Anytime the airplane enters a fully developed stall, the autopilot and autothrottle should be disconnected.".
I cannot somehow see either Tom or TK as 'a controlled flight maneuver'
It is looking as if Boeing and AB (and others?) need to produce some system to prevent this excessive aft trim occuring below Vref - if we can no longer expect pilots to watch airspeed.