You sound like your spoiling for a rumble mate, rather than simply seeking information. What's your agenda here?
DFC has a long track history of hating the UK, the CAA, NATS, ATC, and everyone else under the sun. Maybe an SRG Inspector ran away with his wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/pet dog or whatever ?
Now to DFC:
This pilot recognises that he is operating in one of the UK designated hostile areas of operation and consequently wants to file a flight plan.
What is a UK 'hostile area' ? Where are these designated ? Are the Welsh Nationalists going to burn his helicopter down or something ?
What is the telephone number that pilots can use to file a flight plan from a muddy field in wales using a simple mobile telephone?
Use the parent ATC number and explain your predicament to them. I am sure they will accept the plan and file it for you, regardless of what the AIP says. What they won't be able to do is send you a copy back so you can check it for errors. That's a risk you'll just have to accept ... or run crying to EASA about.
Or do what
FISBangWallop says and file it in the air.
Secondly, this heli pilot is departing from an isolated site and proceeding to another isolated site this time in the Highlands of Scotland. There is no one available to act as the "responsible person".
Who is the pilot ?? Billy No Mates ? Is it not just laziness that they can't find someone ... anyone, to look out for them ? They must live somewhere and have people there, or friends, or relations. Is it a lack of initiative that they can't get someone from an Air Traffic Control Centre or nearby ATSU to act as that person as a final backstop. Did they even think to ask ?
Calling the FIS and having a dep message sent to activate the flight plan?
Yes, you can do that. Who says you can't ?
Requesting that an ATS unit act as the "responsible person".
Yes, you can do that. But that involves you talking to them and asking them to carry out the task. Initiaitve required.
It seems to me that the latest arrangements are not in accordance with ICAO SARPS because;
These are not mandatory. They are standards (to try and attain) or recommended practices (which have no mandate). What's your point ?
1. Not every flight can file a flight plan if they want
Yes, they can, but it needs a Commander who knows his responsibilities and who to talk to.
2. Flights that have filed a FPL can not have a dep message sent by an ATS unit when they are departing from a remote site
Yes, they can. Ask the FIS sector to do it for you. Or any ATSU unit which you talk to on the trip.
3. No alerting service is provided to flights on an active flight plan - the onus is on the flight to have a non-ats agency perform the alerting function.
More bollocks spouted. Alerting service is provided by ALL ATS units which you talk to. Alerting Service for your non arrival is provided by your 'responsible person'. As a Commander you have the responsibility to brief any passengers during your flight. It's also your responsibility to brief your 'responsible person' as to what they should do and when. If you can't take this on, send your pilots licence back because you are clearly not capable of carrying out your Commanders duties.
Seems to me that the CAA needs to look again at how NATS are providing the service in the UK with regard ti flight plan filing, activating, closing and the alerting service for flights to remote places on active flight plans.
Seems to me they have a system that works for everyone except
DFC. Not a perfect system, but one which does the job.
Is there any other country where you can not file a flight plan and have it activated easily unless departing from an aerodrome with an ATS unit and where if you fail to close the flight plan on landing no one ever bothers to come looking for you?
But you tell someone when you are planning to arrive, you tell them what to do if you don't, you tell them who to contact (parent ATS unit). The parent ATS unit then set wheels in motion to come looking for you. Simples.
If I tell a responsible person that my ETA at some out of the way place is 1900 and enroute for various reasons I will be 35 minutes late will the FIR or any other ATC unit pass on the updated ETA to the responsible person so that overdue action is not started?
They will if you pass them the 'responsible person's' number and ask them to. Why wouldn't they ? Are you sure you should be out on your own ? You seem incapable of thinking things through.
Imagine I am talking to some big military airfield radar unit. They know I am fine and a bit behind time but no problem. Will the MOD ring my Granny's mobile several times to reassure her that she should not worry I am OK just a bit late so don't press the panic botton whan I have not telephoned her within 30 minutes of the time I told her some 5 hours before.
As above, ask them to.
How does the ATC supervisor at LACC or ScOACC feel when there are flights in their area of responsibility that have filed a flight plan but either;
a) They are reported overdue incorrectly or
b) Are not reported overdue when it is necessary?
They don't feel anything. They do their jobs, professionally. Someone reported overdue and they are not ? No big deal, better safe than sorry. Someone not reported overdue when they should be points more than likely to a failure of the commander. He has either not put in place a responsible person, or has not briefed them properly, or has not made them aware of any changes. It comes with the territory of having your pilots licence. Stop trying to shunt blame on to everyone else. It really isn't rocket science.
DC10RealMan
I worked in the ATC system for thirty years and have severe reservations about timely and effective overdue action being taking in the event of me being overdue when flying. I have agreed an unofficial system with an ex-colleague who is also a pilot that I will call him when I depart with a firm ETA and in the event of me not calling him within a certain time he will call the police to initiate overdue action.
It's not an unofficial system. It's been in the AIP for years.
DFC
I think that the only answer to the question for my friend is to ring the relevant ACC supervisor and request to file a FPL over the phone. If that is refused then file an MOR since this inability to file a flight plan is covered by the MOR system.
The penny drops .. at last. And get over yourself .... why would an ACC refuse to file a plan for you ??
Unfortunately with regard to overdue action, the lack of alerting has been mentioned in several accident reports. All refer to the "responsible person" but none recomend that the responsible person be appropriately trained.
The 'responsible person' came in precisely because of an accident. They don't need training, they need a proper and complete briefing from the Commander. The Commander might also want to check their understanding of the briefing to make sure he is happy and to ensure his obligations have been discharged.
This is the basic ICAO requirement. How does the CAA ensure that responsible persons are appropriately trained to provide the alerting service NATs is refusing to provide?
.
You are the Commander. It's your job regarding the 'responsible person'. NATS are fully trained to carry out ICAO Alerting Actions when it is clear they need to do so.
How many police stations are going to give the reply "well the person has to be missing for 24 hours before we would file a missing persons report sir" to your friend DC10Realman.
Why did you give the 'responsible person' a police station number ?? Why not give them the ACC number instead. You are just wasting time since all the police will do is phone the ACC.
Under the previous system, the responsible person had to be given the Parent Unit number. Under this system there is no parent system as such and no clear number to ring where appropriate action can be taken.
You can't find an ACC number anywhere in the AIP ?
Ringing 999 and reporting an accident is not appropriate unless one knows that an accident has really occurred and not appropriate just because the flight is delayed by 32 minutes and ATS units enroute refused to provide an updated eta to the responsible person.
Give me an example where you did this and the ATS unit refused to pass it on. I'll wager it's a lie.
Thanks for the replies - I think that the answer is for such operations the only answer is to use French, Dutch, Swiss, German or Austrian ATS facilities for operations in the UK.
Now we reach the real point. You hate the UK. Did we chop you from ATC here or something ?
