-438, this is not a personal attack on pilots in QF, it is a attack on the culture that has been encouraged over the last fifty years, long before most of you were born. I was on the committee of the AFAP pre 89' and I well know how unions work, they are a horse designed by a committee, so usually end up looking like a camel. I have no reason to think anything is going to change here. As long as your's and my backsides point to the ground there will be no change until the thinking in QF changes, and it has not. I witnessed first hand in Japan not so long ago when having a few drinks in a bar with a relative who works for JQ and the rest of a JQ crew,we noticed two obvious crew members from Oz standing on their own and looking like they would like to join in the fun, we invited them over, they turned out to be two QF pilots, who by the end of the night stated and I quote " you people are nowhere as bad as we have been told" unquote, at first we thought they were joking, sadly they were not, I hopefully put it down to the grog talking, and hope I am right. By the way I am retired, but after a lifetime in the Airlines, still think I am entitled to a point of view, and sorry, still cannot help but have a chuckle at QF'S discomfort.