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Old 6th Mar 2009, 15:34
  #1542 (permalink)  
cargun
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Istanbul
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@rainboe

My answers in red beneath your words:

And you young man can't see the simple fact that an aeroplane is just a basic flying machine. It has things to help it fly and make life easier for the pilot. Those things are not important to the basic requirement to fly the aeroplane. When one of those aids fails, and an aeroplane crashes, one has to look dispassionately and thing 'did the aeroplane crash because of the failure, or did it crash because of the incompetence of the pilots?'

I already admitted the responsibility of the pilots earlier. It's nonsense to bring this up.


The failure of a totally unimportant item did lead to a crash because totally incompetent pilots could not handle the failure of this totally unimportant item and fly the aeroplane! I used to fly without a RA at all! It is an aid to your flying, not a vital piece of equipment. Remember that. Don't get tied up in the technicalities- it is an aid to flying only.

We are discussing aviation design. If it's so unimportant why do you even need it? I have to repeat that it's not the RA failure that caused the crash. The aircraft can sure fly with a broken RA we know that. The main problem is that the A/T is fed by a single RA whatsoever, even in a sudden 1958 feet variance and an absurd negative -8 reading at 1900 feet. The fact that pilots are responsible, doesn't change the fact that Boeing has a faulty flight computer design. If the design was OK, they wouldn't accept that and release the recent memo after the crash.

So is there a trend causing crashes. Er.....how many RA failures in the history of the millions of take-offs and landings of 737s, 747s have caused the plane to flop out of the sky? None. There is no trend. We have an incident caused by a completely out of tune crew, for whatever reasons. What is the answer? Blame Boeing for ONE crew unable to fly a plane, or maybe Turkish needs to look at its training, its checking, where it sources crew from, how it trains them. Turkey must not try and pass the blame onto the manufacturer for its bizarrely incompetent crew in this incident.

First if the system was the same as the 747's. Boeing statement would include 747's as well. It's just the 737 family, its just the left and main RA, it's not the right one never. Boeing apparently figured out that the faulty RA indirectly caused A/T to shut off just after the crash. Otherwise they would have issued the recent statement on Feb 11. Boeing had a design flaw making the flight computer insecure. They didn't figure it out up until the accident and they didn't fix it before (not the RA, the system design). Second, as far as I read, many 737 pilots have had the same (-8) RA reading but at altitudes higher than 2.000. So no A/T problem. The fact that this happened on TK 1951 is a coincidence to happen just before landing, A/T engaged. Yes the pilots, should have solved it in 100 seconds, for gods sake. But still the design is faulty.

I don't like anonymous new posters coming here and discussing like you have. Why should I listen to you? Say please what your expertise and aviation experience is if you are going to make statements like you have. I don't know if you are a schoolboy or a pilot.

You assume that I'm a young boy from Istanbul, trying to save my country's ass and reputation and blame it on Boeing. I am as anonymous as you are. You are prejudiced. My experience in aviation is irrelevant. I stated that I'm a non pilot, just a tech savvy guy. I can make serious simple reasoning without aviation or avionics experience whatsoever and still get credit from forum members and you are angry at this.

Remember this: Bad design kills, as well as incompetent staff does. There is no difference with a bunch of incompetent Boeing engineers and 3 incompetent stress paralyzed pilots. They all are human like you are and I am, and helped fly or crash this aircraft. So cut the arrogance, and do not listen to me if you do not want to. By answering me irrelevantly me like this in front of everyone you are giving me credit and discrediting yourself. Realize this.
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