Which is precisely why I said that relationship is hugely strained in the UK at the moment. All the things you have mentioned have increased massivley in the UK in the last 10 years but it wasn't always like that and most of us see the ID card scheme as the last straw and a line in the sand that we don't want crossed. In the UK now I don't think the state is subservient to the people any more but at the moment we have not gone too far down the road that things can't be changed, getting Brown and Co. out of power would be a good first step, the State has become too large and too intrusive during the Labour parties time in power and we need a new government rapidly.