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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 01:32
  #36 (permalink)  
Willie Everlearn
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
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wallygator and Speedboat, you guys must be young!

Judging by your comments and questions it sounds to me like you've both missed a couple of things regarding the designation and use of the term "flag" carrier. (something we don't really use in Canada so I'm not surprised your comments are what they are)

Here's my glossover. (and I'm not trying to be smug or sarcastic)

When governments used to sit down to negotiate bilateral agreements (today as well) they negotiated on behalf of their State owned airlines. i.e., Canada-Air Canada, France-Air France, UK-British Airways, and so on. That was under an archaic protectionist regime. Deregulation hit the process like a bowling ball. You undoubtedly know that a good number of these former state owned airlines, including Air Canada have been sold into private hands so I won't elaborate. This changed the playing rules significantly over the last 15 years plus so we now live in a world of State owned airlines and Privately owned airlines. A complicated mix if ever there was. This makes the process more difficult while at the same time retaining the right to appoint or designate a "flag" carrier.

If Westjet wants to serve AMSterdam they make application. The Dutch Gov't looks at the current agreement, sees that Air Canada is the designated flag carrier for Canada and WJ gets turned down. They then go to the French and apply to provide regular scheduled services to Paris. The French Gov't looks at the bilateral agreement and says sorry, Air Canada is the present designate. However, if you wish to serve Paris on a charter basis, there is a way. As a charter carrier but not as the designated carrier. WJ then says we really prefer to serve AMS so they decide to apply to the Dutch Gov't for services to AMS as a charter airline. The Dutch Gov't says, we can do that.
The process is an ongoing negotiation between most countries to bring to and/or ensure stability in air services.

The point I was making in a previous post is that we (Canada) don't define Flag, Supplemental, or Domestic airlines in Canada as they do in the FARs. Because they fly to Hawaii, doesn't change much. Because they may fly to a Caribbean destination still doesn't make it a Flag Carrier either. West Jet provides scheduled domestic airline service and sells Charter capacity to the travel industry much like Air Transat (who I believe got WJA into the charter business, I could be wrong because I don't follow WJA that closely)

I'm thinking WJ has in their Ops Spec two authorities. One to operate Domestic and Transborder Ops plus the authority to provide "charter" flights to a list of "other" (including Int'l) destinations. But it's only a guess.
It still doesn't make them a flag carrier in the same context as Bilateral Agreements are concerned.

Putting a decal of the Canadian flag on the fuselage also doesn't make it a 'FLAG' carrier. It's not that simple. l

Speedboat
If WJ are named in the bilaterals between Canada and St. Lucia, Barbados, Jamaica, Mexico and the DR, then it is a 'flag' carrier. However, this is something I'd have to look up.


I hope this clarifies my remarks a bit?
Willie

Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 23rd Sep 2008 at 01:44.
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