B.P.F.:. .. .This thread was discussing the poor landing abilities of a large number of todays pilots, just go back and read the first posts.. .. .As to your comment that flying is more complicated today than it used to be, that is not exactly true either. It all depands on where and what you are flying. Good stick and rudder skills are no less important today than they were in the past.. .. .Now I don't know how far back you go but lets try Chicago O'Hare in the late fifties and early sixties, the traffic density was not all that much different than today and we did not have all the modern avionics and nav equipment to make life easier.. .. .There is a positive aspect to poorly trained pilots however, it does give those who do skills upgrading training a never ending supply of customers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. ...................... . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />