Oh Deary Me.
Nicibei, I'm sorry, because this is going to seem like I'm now having a go at you directly, and I promise you that isn't the case. In the last two threads I've been active on, you come across as though you have a serious axe to grind with OAA. This does not make you the only one. However, your arguments and discussions lose any credibility when they are so deeply flawed. I am not in any shape related to the Netjets scheme, although I did apply for it and unfortunately got turned down in Lisbon. But.
Firstly, as HollingworthP pointed out, the package NJE are offering their cadets is pretty damn good and is certainly just about the highest starting package I've heard of for any airline for low hour pilots. This includes BA, BMI and certainly Ryanair etc.
Secondly, IF YOU UNDERTAKE TRAINING YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT - REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU ARE SPONSORED OR NOT. You seem to have got very confused by the fact that this is a Netjets scheme and seem to think that this makes the repayment requirements different from all the rest of us out there self sponsoring. Surely you cannot question that having a portion of your salary paid to you tax free as some kind of reimbursement of your training costs is better for the cadet than having ALL of your starting salary taxed and then having to service a loan post tax? With that in mind, the costs the NJE cadets are expected to bear are no different than those a normal APP FO cadet pays, save that a portion of their salary is paid tax free, to assist with repaying.
Thirdly, you seem to have completely misunderstood the payment NJE are offering. To clarify, although HollingworthP has already stated this clearly - and ONLY looking at basics, so no per diems or extra days, to keep it simple - a "normal" F/O (experienced) FO going to NJE earns about €56500 first year. This is ALL taxed at whatever the national rate is for their country of domicile. For the purposes of simplicity, the NJE cadets get paid €36500 SALARY - which will be taxed at prevailing rates - and a further €20000 as "course reimbursement". This does NOT go direct to the bank, it is paid, TAX FREE in the cadets salary package, to make their salary up to the €56500 NJE first office rate. If you have no loan, you get that €20000 tax free, in toto. Your calculations all include some element of €56500 being taxed then €20000 on top, which is NI'd before being multiplied by the square root of 34005 and growing a daisy....you're overcomplicating the sums needlessly.
Fourthly, you postulate that a NJE cadet will earn nothing first year as the entire first year salary in your sums goes against the outstanding loan. Well, that wouldn't be very good business of NJE, would it? Having their F/Os living in a cardboard box? No. No bank in the world would provide a loan where the entire first year earnings were offsetting against the loan, for the simple reason it is clearly unsustainable. You seem to have a reducing lump sum payment per year - again, not the way the banking industry works I'm afraid. Generally, banks work by taking the capital sum, working out the total interest over the duration of the loan and dividing by the loan term to find a monthly payment. At least this is the way the banks I worked in do it, but clearly you're going to know better than I... So, let's use your figures (I've not looked too hard at them, so I'll assume correct for what it's worth) €138000 total owing. Divided by 6 years, equals approx €1900 per month, or €23000 a year. Oh look, handy how that works out as pretty much the sum that NJE give you TAX FREE to pay your loan back, isn't it... So the NJE cadets, on basic pay alone - and assuming they have to borrow the entire, full amount, are going to walk away with €36500 per year, first year, which will be taxed (lets say leaving €27000) of which a further €3k is needed to service the loan, according to your figures. So take home, AFTER REPAYMENTS would be €2000 per month. Admittedly, you're not going to be buying Buckingham palace on that, but it's still a VERY good salary for a low hour pilot, with all training costs accounted for, plus a type rating you don't have to pay for.
I don't mean to be harsh, but it's quite hard to take your comments seriously on this thread when they are SO wide of the mark in just about every single aspect. It's clear you have either not read the terms of the scheme or have just totally misunderstood them. You may have an axe to grind, but please make sure you have a strong argument before embarking on ginding it!
Last edited by clanger32; 22nd February 2008 at 10:02.