KBF & JACKO,
Like many, been a bit busy so apologies for my late return to the debate. Both of you are eloquent and have many good points to make, a lot of which I agree with. However, now that we all appear to be debating in a civilised manner (I'll take your 'apology' Jacko in the way that it wasn't intended), I have a couple of things to add. I still want to ask you Jacko (yes I know, back to Syria again), how you see Syria's stance on Israel softening in real terms, not just in its rhetoric. If they really are serious about peace with Israel, then why do they fund and train and supply terrorist groups, noticeably Hamas (thats now, not 25 years ago), who quite clearly don't want peace. This appears to be the type of skin deep softening that Sinn Fein has taken up in NI to gain worldwide recognition and legitmacy, I think we all know what a crock that is.
Syria are not the only ones in the region still sponsoring terrorism and claiming to be a 'moderate' state. Israel may be a lot of things, and I certainly don't condone its behaviour on everything, but at least it is a democracy. At least its women can drive (some might say that that is a bad thing), vote, wear skirts, not be beaten or stoned in public, beheaded for having sex with the wrong person, dance and generally be treated as a human being and an equal. Yes their are lots of differing cultures, and we should learn to cope with that, with all of our western liberlism, but, I for one am a little tired of people making excuses for appalling deeds carried out in the name of religion. I don't believe that any God, whoever he belongs to, would want his people/women (of all races and religions) treated in such a barbaric manner because some 2000 year old book says so. I realise this last bit is a little off scope, but there you go.
KBF, liked a lot of your solutions, but have a snag with a couple. You talked about not using the language of revenge, but of support. Who's sensibilities are we offending by asking for revenge? You actually used the word justice when talking about revenge, are you suggesting that when we catch a murderer that we try and understand him and support him and that we don't seek justice, or is the international terrorist different somehow because he has a cause. Admittedly, some of the Terrorist groups in the ME have Israel as public enemy number 1, but I don't believe this to be the case with OBL. I just think that he hates the USA and all it stands for, Political, Economic and Religious freedom. He hates the way that western and American culture is spreading through his homelands. I don't believe that the USA's support for Israel was the reason for the attacks, indeed, if the USA stopped supporting Israel it would not make any difference to OBL. It is the 'Great Satan' that is the enemy, and for that reason alone we should all be worried. the attacks were directed at the USA and the West, and thats why I believe we should stamp on this hard.
As I said above, your arguments are well put and well written, but, I think you could do with being a little less patronising to our American cousins who are not as stupid as you seem to think they are. Pointing out lists of foreign policy mistakes and arguing about who won the war are not helpful as we are not so squeaky clean ourselves at home or abroad (NI, Zimbabwe, Bosnia, Falklands (although we won that one in the end)). It is a very sensible thing to sit back in your armchair and try and understand a thing before reacting, unfortunately some things are beyond our comprehension, yet they require action anyway. And please stop telling us about the over reaction of the US and the carpet bombing etc etc, they haven't done a thing yet.
Anyway, here's to a continued lively debate, off for a non-alcoholic beverage and a kebab.
D