MM. . .Your comments about leadership are interesting. In my experience of working on several FJ squadrons I have found that everyone pulled together to get the younger guys trained up and ready to take their first steps up the "management" ladder. From the top down there was a concerted effort to ensure that support and guidance was given so that the individual was given a thorough grounding in the basics. As well as helping him to progress professionally, it also might just stop him from flying into a hillside. A lot of this work is done by the "middle management" of Flt Lts, who often work long hours to support the chain, both above and below them. This to me is the essence of "leadership", in action day to day. Yes its not as glamorous as leading the troops into battle, but it has to be done none the less. . .. .From comments such as those from Charlie_L (which I'm appalled that you stand by and yet see fit to claim the moral high ground) it is obvious that a different set of rules operate in your world. There have been numerous threads on pprune from AA telling of how they "showed the new co/skipper/officer who was really the boss". This attitude ranges from leaving bags behind on Det to Charlie_Ls strange quasi-homosexual behaviour. This ingrained attitude has also been relayed to me by many ex-AA over a few beers. . .. .I have never witnessed such an attitude on an Officer aircrew only sqn. By this I do not mean that life is always rosy, of course there are frictions and you get the same self serving gits who will trample anyone in their way, but there is an atmosphere of everyone working towards the same goal. . .. .Have you ever stopped to put yourself in the position of a newly arrived FO at the front of a Nimrod? Constant snyde remarks over the intercom from "hairy old AA" putting the young pup in his place, turning up on Det to find that some wag down the back has pi**ed in his kit bag - don't deny it goes on because I know for a fact that it does (Charlie-L proves as much). You constantly complain about officers generating the "them and us mentallity" and only looking out for themelves. Have you ever stopped to wonder if it's not the culture of - "I've been doing this for 20 years, you shut up and drive" that has eroded the mutual respect that is needed. There must be a common link because the attitude of "lets humiliate the new boy to put him in his place" simply does not exist on any FJ sqn I have seen and if you try to tell me it doesn't in your world, just pause before you do and use the search feature to re-visit old threads.. .. .Leadership, like trust is a two way street. For an efficient, professional outfit there must be effective leadership at all levels. There has been a surplus of leadership on all FJ sqns I have served on at almost all levels. Instead of pointing the finger at your officers, why don't you look around and see who erodes the trust and respect on your unit. You may find that the blame lies uncomfortably close to home.. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 15:58: Message edited by: Flap62 ]</small>