OK you want facts to discuss, well here are some. Why does this Forum attract weirdos? We have you, we have LTNman, we have 411A, and we have that other weirdo Bus 411 'the pilots friend'. Give you lot something to crow about and boy, there you all are sitting on a telegraph line crowing away. And now you think pilots have taken it on the chin. Well, the world will recover without your help, and things will be back to normal, so please take your crowing elsewhere! The aviation community doesn't need you lot, particularly you. You have a most unhealthy obsession with a PILOTS network. By all means drop in, but read more than post. One has to ask- who do you think you are telling us all what's wrong and what to do about all aspects of aviation?